Diablo 3 PVP dropped.

[jeffmd]

From what I can tell, not all of the locations and skills are even in beta yet? atleast it seems like the last beta patch introduced a slew of new skills. Hard to make any valid conclusions even at this point.

[v3rninater]

Huh? All the talents and skills are in the game...dunno what beta you're playing?

Anyhow, they just need to release the game and stop changing the crap out of it all the time.

[BioHazZarD]

tralalalallaa

[FastRedPonyCar]

yeah releasing on my birthday I can't wait. I don't care about PVP. who knows.. they may have it ready for around release time.

[Rakeesh]

LOL captain moron to the rescue!

Originally Posted by jcrox

Personally I think it's inevitable. Sooner or later games will have 2 separate pieces to pay for (if not more) - SP and MP and I wouldn't be surprised to find that one won't work without the other. It's their way of saying "Look over here, we're not raising the price of a game, we're giving you 2 games!!!".

You know, if you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

Originally Posted by jcrox

Capitalism requires perpetual, unending growth no matter how improbable, impractical or impossible that is. If you made 300 trillion in profit this year, 299 trillion in profit next year is unacceptable. They have a shrinking market and it couldn't possibly be the quality of the games (see 'if they made castle wolfenstein today' video) ... it's someone else's fault and therefore they have to come up with gimmicks.

Right, communism is so much better. I mean look the communists gave us tetris! What game is better than tetris? Obviously communism is better because of tetris.

Seriously dude, lay off the amphetamines. You don't know a damn thing about how business works. A business is always going to look for more ways to improve its income if not diversify in some way. Businesses that don't change eventually die. I believe in evolution myself, and while I'm sure your god may tell you otherwise, species that don't change die too. As you can see, capitalism is in harmony with nature, whereas your planned socialist economies are not, hence why they always do a face plant after no longer than a decade.

Originally Posted by jcrox

The sad part is I know a few people in the industry and while the Gaming Software companies are looking to make more and more and more they clearly don't feel the need to have any of that trickle down to the people that actually put the work into making the games.

Actually if you look at a lot of the smaller game producing shops (you know, where the producers ARE the developers,) they tend to follow a lot of the same trends of what the larger shops are doing. Gaming is actually moving more towards casual play found on smartphones and tablets, and for the games that are only practical on legacy platforms, it is moving more towards a free to play micro-transaction model.

The model of paying $60 for a 40 hour game is dying. You may not like it, but that is reality.

And jcrox, please say something that isn't stupid for once, I know you can do it.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by |MaguS|

Any guesses on how much this DLC will cost us? You know their not going to provide it for free... They will make some bull**** excuse like they did with Starcraft, "oh we just had some much content that we had to make it a separate product!" This is thanks to all those who bought that 1/3 game called Starcraft 2.

If you are expecting PVP, you shouldn't be playing a blizzard game. Just look at wow, wow's PVP is terrible. I should know, when I played wow I was consistently in the top 1% of all players. Had all of the best gear in the game and knew all of the tricks. And when I look at wow pvp vs other games, it's downright terrible.

There's virtually no depth whatsoever. Regardless of what class/spec people play, they all tend to have their talents organized the same, so it is very much a cookie cutter system. I've looked at what changes they are planning in bringing to MoP, and they won't do a damn thing to address that problem, instead they'll just make the problem look different.

Wow PVP mechanics are also brutally simple. It's basically about preventing the other player from doing anything at all. Seriously I've never played any game other than wow which is built so heavily around crowd control.

And then if that's not bad enough, blizzard ALWAYS leaves flavor of the month specs or comps that totally demolish anything else. They'll admit when its a problem, but they don't do anything about it for 5 months. Look at mages right now, ridiculous amount of crowd control, they admit its a problem, and say they won't fix it until the next expansion. And then when they do fix it, they usually over fix it and gimp whatever they were trying to nerf, and then call it balanced. There's another FOTM spec to take its place after that, which stays broken for another 5 months.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, except in order to get anywhere in wow pvp, you pretty much have to do just arena, which places class imbalances under a microscope. Sure they created rated BG's, but good luck organizing them because most people are too busy raiding. And even if you can arrange them, they are extremely boring and repetitive. World PVP was the only reason I played wow for as long as I did, and then they screwed that too by basically turning all of the guards into carebears, effectively making PVP and PVE servers not very different from one another.

Again I need to emphasize, blizzard does not know a DAMN THING about producing a good pvp game.

[jeffmd]

Rakeesh, uhmm, WoW pvp is no peach, but on the flipside Starcraft is like one of the most popular pvp games ever.

[RollinThundr]

Originally Posted by six_storm

Starcraft 2 on it's own is awesome. Not sure who really bought that game for SP anyways.

MP isn't fun in SC2, it's all rush rush rush. I like to take my time, build an actual base before being decimated 10 mins into every game. Diablo 3 I'm passing on anyways, looks like ass, forced online DRM, real money transaction AH. No thanks Blizzard, for a game that's been in development for so long I can't see why, it looks absolutely 2004ish graphically and they ripped half the sound effects out of Diablo2. Blizzard has the absolute worse project management skills in the entire industry that they need to take 10 years to push out a rehashed sequel.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by jeffmd

Rakeesh, uhmm, WoW pvp is no peach, but on the flipside Starcraft is like one of the most popular pvp games ever.

Right but look at what starcraft is, it's an RTS, which doesn't include classes or any sort of a talent or stat system. It only has three variations in play. wow and diablo are both RPG's, and blizzard has never made an RPG with balanced PVP, not even once.

[jeffmd]

why would you not consider the unit types as classes? There are many similarities, as SC units employee the same relationships between health pools or armor, fire power, and mobility. Every unit has a counter, or many counters with only one being the best. Yet the shroud of war and build time/resources prevent everyone from tackling the unit the same.

And I seem to understand that the talent system in sp didn't carry into multi play, but things like upgrades which take time, resources, and can actually be taken away by the enemy could be considered "talents", buffs that are not normally a part of the unit's stats.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by jeffmd

why would you not consider the unit types as classes?

Because each unit is far too simple in operation compared to what you'd see as a "class" in an RPG, not to mention being far more disposable.

Originally Posted by jeffmd

There are many similarities, as SC units employee the same relationships between health pools or armor, fire power, and mobility. Every unit has a counter, or many counters with only one being the best. Yet the shroud of war and build time/resources prevent everyone from tackling the unit the same.

The other player can always counter what you are doing by creating new units, which takes hardly any time at all. In an RPG that isn't an option; you'd have to roll a new character, effectively starting over. That is the fundamental problem.

Originally Posted by jeffmd

And I seem to understand that the talent system in sp didn't carry into multi play, but things like upgrades which take time, resources, and can actually be taken away by the enemy could be considered "talents", buffs that are not normally a part of the unit's stats.

No, they're not. In an RTS, all upgrade paths are available without limits. In RPGs, you are given a choice of one thing or another, or even a few things but not many more things.

[Son Goku]

They patched Sunwell Plauteu into WoW for free, and Black Temple was originally going to be the last raid in TBC, except people progressed through it too fast, for it to hold over till the, then new expansion. I'm not sure they'll charge for it. And yeah, it does make sense to hold off, if the PvP isn't quite there, on putting it in.

I've been to the d3 forums (have the WoW annual pass, so get the thing free essentially, with that; oh well for the $5 down I put at Gamestop. In any case, people were complaining about arenas, and how they don't like them in WoW. Others were ready to throw a fit about no release date, until one got announced. Some are now throwing a fit about the PvP. And others are throwing a fit that d2's original PvP system isn't in place, because they demand the right to PK and grief others.

Naturally when the former PK was talking about how "great it is", others chimed in with a "thanks for letting us know what we're dealing with. Actually we hated people like you" This really is something for which, someone, on some side is going to complain no matter what they do...

But as an aside, there is a way around this, for which some might think about whether they'd want to cancel their orders. Blizzard has decided they can't beat all those farmers, so to put a RMAH in play. One doesn't have to buy off it, to sell on it, and gold can yes be sold. This gives me an idea, of how one who was never a farmer, never one of those dratted spammers who annoy us all, could simply slip in, and get bliz to pay themselves from the RMAH I wonder if bliz thought how shrewd some players might be in this, and in the end, using game item auctions, to pay for game content, items, subscriptions doesn't feel as dirty, as getting real bucks might. Afterall, one's using a now approved game economy, to help pay for, well more game stuff This might deserve it's own thread though; but kinda puts a twist on the money making arguments.