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Old 09-24-03, 04:58 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivefeet8
Yes, I do think that Nvidia shouldn't disable Trilinear filtering completely and let the user's choose it. But honestly, from a quality standpoint, trilinear and non trilinear IQ aren't that different save the floor textures.
That may or may not be true. For example, I can't tell the difference between ATI's 8x Performance AF(bilinear) and 8x Quality AF(trilinear) from static screenshots, or from the ground in FPS games. There may be a difference, but I'm not sure. I haven't exactly recorded movies to find out. But I can tell the difference when looking at walls.
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Old 09-25-03, 02:36 AM   #182
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Quite often.. Nvidia is winning some of these tests because Fog is removed. This goes all the way back to the Nv30 at UT2003. It continues today. Especially the 50 series drivers which completely remove Fog for speed.
When comments like the above are made, is the fog that is being discussed a smoke effect / "real" fog (heh, like the fog in the movie The Fog) or are you talking about the technique games use to avoid having to render a lot of detail in the distance (view distance setting) or is it something other than those two?
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Old 09-25-03, 08:56 AM   #183
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Smoke-type effect. Something that impairs visibility but requires a lot of rendering power and such to compute.
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Old 09-25-03, 11:35 AM   #184
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Considering that the whole DM-Icetomb map is slow with the 45.23's anywhere you ran to, why would the missing roof fog make such a difference and need to be removed? The rest of the map didn't have the fog and it still ran poorly with the 45.23's. With the 51.75's, the map is running 67 fps on average with your Icetomb benchmark.

BTW. I've gotten the screenshots posted:

51.75's or 45.23's.

2 shots are from DM-ICetomb with different dets. 2 shots from DM-Rustatorium with different Dets. Which shot is with which driver?
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Old 09-25-03, 12:21 PM   #185
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Fivefeet8, this thread was never about average FPS, it was about MIN FPS. I don't care if I average a playable 45FPS if there are spots on the map that drop me to 6 FPS! I consider than unplayable. And this is about playability at high quality settings. Some people would actually like to play UT2K3 instead of just benchmarking it. There are other places in Icetomb where that fog exists, NOT just in that chamber, and the fog does cause big dips. Why? Ask Nvidia, not me.
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Old 09-25-03, 12:45 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Fivefeet8, this thread was never about average FPS, it was about MIN FPS. I don't care if I average a playable 45FPS if there are spots on the map that drop me to 6 FPS! I consider than unplayable. And this is about playability at high quality settings. Some people would actually like to play UT2K3 instead of just benchmarking it. There are other places in Icetomb where that fog exists, NOT just in that chamber, and the fog does cause big dips. Why? Ask Nvidia, not me.
Guess you didn't look at my DM-Icetomb fraps bench posted on this thread earlier. The minimum fps I got was 36. And that's with 8 bots running around other places in the map. Even using Baron's Icetomb bench demo, the lowest fps I saw was 30. And these benches were done at 1024x768, 4xAA, 8xAF. Show me a shot where there is fog because even using the 45.23's, I only saw a lot of fog in the chamber. Not much else.

And you did ask what minimum FPS we were getting with DM-Icetomb right? How are we suppose to find that out without running some benches? BTw, I did actually play it while I was benchmarking with fraps. You can do both.
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Old 09-25-03, 01:00 PM   #187
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Guess you didn't look at my DM-Icetomb fraps bench posted on this thread earlier
Guess YOU haven't been reading this thread from the beginning. The 5900U has a 4X slower FPS in some spots of Icetomb than a 9800P at the same exact details settings and similar system specs. Confirmed by multiple people. We're talking 40FPS compared to 10FPS here. This was before 50.xx were leaked. I don't care about Nvidia's new ultra cheating, IQ killing, unreleased drivers. I give up.
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Old 09-25-03, 01:02 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spotch
Screen Capture Detection! Screen Cqapture Detection! These screenshots are useless! This was alleged as being in the Det 50 drivers by the evil Gabe. Somebody please prove or disprove it so we can stop wasting time on the IQ question.

Somebody take a picture of the screen and post it for IQ comparisons!
From comparing my shots while actually playing the game and going to the same scene, there is NO screen capture detection.
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Old 09-25-03, 01:06 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
Guess YOU haven't been reading this thread from the beginning. The 5900U has a 4X slower FPS in some spots of Icetomb than a 9800P at the same exact details settings and similar system specs. Confirmed by multiple people. We're talking 40FPS compared to 10FPS here. This was before 50.xx were leaked. I don't care about Nvidia's new ultra cheating, IQ killing, unreleased drivers. I give up.
Actually I did, and I posted scores from the 51.75 dets which have increased performance in those two maps 2 to 3 times. And if you really think they killed IQ with these drivers, look at my link above and tell me which do you think are the shots from the IQ killing 51.75's.

One more thing, I'm not even arguing the point that the 45.23's are very slow with these 2 maps. It's been proven by others and my own testing.

Cheat, optimization, or pixel shader program shuffling? WHO CARES. As far as I have seen, nothing else is different from the 45.23's and 51.75's for Ut2k3 save the missing roof fog in IceTomb and the huge performance increase.
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Old 09-25-03, 01:45 PM   #190
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Haha, ok, maybe they did increase UT2K3 to proper levels, that would be good, but not enough for me to go back after all this. And they DID lower IQ. I can tell EASILY that UT20032003i.jpg is from the 51.xx drivers. It is missing texture detail in certain areas.
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Old 09-25-03, 01:51 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flavius
I can tell EASILY that UT20032003i.jpg is from the 51.xx drivers. It is missing texture detail in certain areas.
So your saying that the first Icetomb shot is from the 51.75 drivers and the second Icetomb shot is from the 45.23? ok. Could you by any chance point out the missing texture detail?

Lets wait and see what other people say as well. How about the Rustatorium shots?
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Old 09-25-03, 02:14 PM   #192
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The Rustatorium shots are terrible. Too dark and chaotic to tell anything. But I stand by my Icetomb claim. This exercise is a bit pointless since there is already a really good web article showing how the 51.xx has *obviously* lowered the IQ.

As for pointing it out... there is missing texture detail in Icemtomb shot on left and right walls.
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