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Old 09-26-03, 01:01 PM   #217
Spotch
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivefeet8
Part of the experiment is over. I posted the same shots and topic at another message board and the answers were the same. When you already believe the 51.75's reduce image quality for performance, your probably going to see IQ loss even when there probably isn't any. As evident by this experiment, all the ones who chose the First DM-icetomb shot as the 51.75's were wrong. And anyone who chose the second Ice-tomb shot as 51.75's are also wrong. Both were done with 45.23 drivers.

The two rustatorium shots were done with different drivers though. But it's funny how hard it is to choose drivers for those two.
Since I am not interested in proving my loyalty to one card or another I am immune to your test. (I did say after all that the Ice shots looked the same.) The problem here is not to show my card is better than yours. It is to show that your card should be better. NV has misled and cheated the most important people of all in my opinion; THE CUSTOMER!

What we all want to do, is to force NV to be accountable for their misrepresentations regarding the entire FX line. DX 9 ? I dont think so! Cine FX? Not really. Industry standard Detonator Drivers? Bull-cookies!

They need to pull back and release a driver that does what the game tells it to do. Then release some hardware that can actually perform acceptably in those circumstances. Then offer a recall. All FX customers that request it should get a replacement part that works as advertised!
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Old 09-26-03, 03:20 PM   #218
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BTW, what is the best way to get identical screencaps between different systems? I was trying to do that last night with MOHAA Spearhead to demonstrate a bug with ATI and shadows enabled. I had a really hard time getting one that was identical...actually, I never did I just got one that was semi-close before giving up for the evening.
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Old 09-26-03, 03:55 PM   #219
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Originally posted by hovz
well if they were both 45.23 then u also havernt proved that there isnt a loss in image quality
But it also doesn't prove that there was a loss either.

Remember, I said I'd post up identical shots soon. The previous was just an experiment to test IQ quality subjectivity. It proves that even though many of you claimed noticeable IQ loss, it might just have been the slight shift in the scene. And even with the same drivers, you claimed noticeable IQ loss. Why is that? Because you already believe it before you look. Your expecting IQ loss, looking for it, and every little thing that is different, must be it.

OWA - YOu could make a demo with the game where all you do is stand at a certain place for a few seconds to take a screenshot. Then copy that demo into the other computer and run it. Run the demo on both computers and take screenshots. That's what I've done in Ut2k3 in the upcoming shots.
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Old 09-26-03, 04:24 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spotch
Since I am not interested in proving my loyalty to one card or another I am immune to your test. (I did say after all that the Ice shots looked the same.) The problem here is not to show my card is better than yours. It is to show that your card should be better. NV has misled and cheated the most important people of all in my opinion; THE CUSTOMER!
Nor am I, but this wasn't really the purpose of the test. And it wasn't to show which card is better.

Anyways, I posted identical shots from both driver sets. If the site is down, wait a bit. Damn bandwidth limitations.
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Old 09-26-03, 06:43 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivefeet8
But it also doesn't prove that there was a loss either.

Remember, I said I'd post up identical shots soon. The previous was just an experiment to test IQ quality subjectivity. It proves that even though many of you claimed noticeable IQ loss, it might just have been the slight shift in the scene. And even with the same drivers, you claimed noticeable IQ loss. Why is that? Because you already believe it before you look. Your expecting IQ loss, looking for it, and every little thing that is different, must be it.

OWA - YOu could make a demo with the game where all you do is stand at a certain place for a few seconds to take a screenshot. Then copy that demo into the other computer and run it. Run the demo on both computers and take screenshots. That's what I've done in Ut2k3 in the upcoming shots.
Another problem with your shots is that the walls had running water. This made for a very inconsistent basis for comparisons. Also make sure you set your drivers to allow the application to determine Aniso and AA settings. This is one area the affected by the driver hacks made by NV.

PS: Please do not use hacked up Omegas. We are not interested in pot luck drivers only in what NV has released and are in question here.

Last edited by Spotch; 09-26-03 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 09-26-03, 09:22 PM   #222
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there is proven IQ loss, there is no trilinear in ANY d3d games
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Old 09-26-03, 09:44 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally posted by hovz
there is proven IQ loss, there is no trilinear in ANY d3d games
Yeah that used to be the primary gripe about ATI cards in many games.
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Old 09-27-03, 12:39 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by hovz
there is proven IQ loss, there is no trilinear in ANY d3d games
Weren't we talking about IQ loss in Ut2k3 in the 51.75's from the 45.23's?
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Old 09-27-03, 12:43 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivefeet8
Weren't we talking about IQ loss in Ut2k3 in the 51.75's from the 45.23's?
Actually, are we?
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Old 09-27-03, 12:47 AM   #226
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I thought we were since I only posted shots from UT2k3 with the 45.23's and the 51.75's.
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Old 09-27-03, 12:54 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spotch
Another problem with your shots is that the walls had running water. This made for a very inconsistent basis for comparisons. Also make sure you set your drivers to allow the application to determine Aniso and AA settings. This is one area the affected by the driver hacks made by NV.

PS: Please do not use hacked up Omegas. We are not interested in pot luck drivers only in what NV has released and are in question here.
Driver hacks? Pff. You still don't get it. Doesn't matter if there are driver hacks or water running. The fact is that people saw what they wanted to see and rushed to conclusions. Like I said, if I had wanted a real IQ comparison, I would've taken Identical shots like the ones now on the site. I was simply tesing their pre dispositions to the IQ killing 51.75's.

Oh and I installed Omega's 45.23's in performance mode so the IQ is virtually the same as the reference 45.23's. Unless you want me to prove it to you with shots as well.
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Old 09-27-03, 12:59 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by fivefeet8
I thought we were since I only posted shots from UT2k3 with the 45.23's and the 51.75's.
Well, some people said there was a quality difference between screenshots you posted with Omega 45.23 Dets and 51.75s....besides some missing effects in 51.75.

Perhaps you could specifically point out where and who said 51.75 lowered quality in UT2003 compared to 45.23? Besides being buggy and not rendering everything.
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