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Old 09-14-03, 06:20 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty
Sorry Hellbinder, but you're wrong. Graphics have nothing todo with gameplay. Alot of good Quake3 players, turn graphics down to minimum for far faster frame-rates, and get much more enjoyment out of it.

I remember ppl playing HL1 in software mode and not caring even tho their card could do it in hardware.
Damn, you're right... I've seen the light!!

* Throws away my 9800 Pro and 5900, dusts off my Voodoo 1, and goes back to playing at 640x480*

Nope, still no good.

* Throws away my PC, and gets out the Amstrad CPC 464 *

That's better!
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Old 09-14-03, 06:27 AM   #110
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Originally posted by Nutty
Sorry Hellbinder, but you're wrong. Graphics have nothing todo with gameplay.
Wow, what a world you live in

The Quake3 era has ended.. With the arrival of Doom3 even more so.

I shall enjoy playing Half-Life 2 at 74fps as Anandtech has shown (in one such map), on my R9800 PRO. Oh, and as Valve has intended.

Looking my the GFX on the source demo. Graphics will only add to the gameplay.. As with the believable world Valve have created, will only add to the immersion, as you the player gets sucked in.
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Old 09-14-03, 06:29 AM   #111
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Nutty.
That doesn't really matter.
Why? Because the main purpose of this comparison is to check if this driver is really miraculous as nvidia has been claiming.
And now we can be sure it is not, seeing this.

I am not saying you are not pointing out a fact.
I am saying you are just trying to insidiously blur the main point with a minor issue.
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Old 09-14-03, 06:43 AM   #112
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I dont agree with cheating drivers, but Hellbinder said it would an impact on gameplay, which I disagree. You dont need to have perfect graphics to enjoy the game.
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Old 09-14-03, 07:38 AM   #113
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Originally posted by dexiter
Well.. when it comes to stocks, you tend to make money by buying low and selling high.. Since this is video card forum, I won't say much, but if NV40 solves problems in NV3x and manages to trump R420, NVDA will be back pretty quickly (it's no longer the startup that hit with TNT you know...) Business IS better at ATI, but ATYT is kinda expensive..
Exactly as you say. ATYT has been going up recently for the past 6 months or so. NVDA was going up but is coming down.

P.S. I don't really understand your last sentence though, as shares of NVDA are more expensive than shares of ATYT.
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Old 09-14-03, 07:55 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty
I dont agree with cheating drivers, but Hellbinder said it would an impact on gameplay, which I disagree. You dont need to have perfect graphics to enjoy the game.

i dont need perfect graphincs, thats true, but if i pay 500$ for my card i bloody well expect to see perfection......thats the thing here, ATi deliveres what u expect (best possible graphics) and Nvidia doesnt.....

its very simple....i dont need it, but i want it.....and ill go for product that will give me what i want.....ATi offcourse
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Old 09-14-03, 08:20 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthHawk
I am not being sarcastic in the above in any way. I am being dead serious. I would not worry about my investment if I had money in NVDA.
Seriously, if I had NVDA I would be very very scared, not because of the everday Joe's opinions but big players on the market. The really big players who have the most shares are usually very well aware of the technical situation too, because they have people hired to find out how the things really are.

If an important market analyst one day would decide that nVidia hardware is and will be utter crap, the market would be flooded by nVidia stock the very same day. And because Microsoft and Nintendo both selected ATi to design their next gen chips, there has been a dark cloud of stock market threat hovering over nVidia HQ.

Quote:
P.S. this is assuming the downward spiral stops and NV40 is clean.
Yes, that is true. Maybe the big players already know the NV40 will be an instant hit when it comes, and that's why the scenario I described hasn't already happened.
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Old 09-14-03, 08:52 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty
Sorry Hellbinder, but you're wrong. Graphics have nothing to do with gameplay.

WHAT???? You can't be serious!!!!! Graphics have everything to do with gameplay. That's like saying that visual effects have nothing to do with a movie. Or sound has nothing to do with music.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty
Alot of good Quake3 players, turn graphics down to minimum for far faster frame-rates, and get much more enjoyment out of it.
Imagine their enjoyment if THEY DIDN"T HAVE TO TURN THE GRAPHICS DOWN! That's the whole point of getting a better graphics card. So you can keep the framerate without having to sacrifice anything else.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty
Seriously, if you step back from inspecting every pixel of those comparison shots, the difference is pretty negligable unless you're comparing two identical frames together like that, which 99% of nvidia card owners simply wont be doing!!
We wouldn't have to do this if Nvidia would stop cheating all the time and just display the images correctly. This is a BENCHMARK. You are not supposed to cheat. The whole point of a benchmark is to compare things on an equal footing and see which is better. Apparently Nvidia doesn't like to lose because everytime ATI's product scores better in a benchmark rendering the same quality, they just lower the quality until they win again and hope that no one notices.

Guess what???? We notice. Big time!!!

At least those of us not wearing blinders.

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Old 09-14-03, 09:12 AM   #117
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Quote:
i dont need perfect graphincs, thats true, but if i pay 500$ for my card i bloody well expect to see perfection......
So do I, I never said I approve of it.

Quote:
WHAT???? You can't be serious!!!!! Graphics have everything to do with gameplay. That's like saying that visual effects have nothing to do with a movie. Or sound has nothing to do with music.
Not really, game is playable, interactive etc.. movies are not.

Any by the same logic, everyone who doesn't own a state of the art TV, or top of the range THX certified sound-system is being cheated, because they're not hearing what they should be hearing?

Quote:
Imagine their enjoyment if THEY DIDN"T HAVE TO TURN THE GRAPHICS DOWN! That's the whole point of getting a better graphics card. So you can keep the framerate without having to sacrifice anything else.
You will _always_ get better performance turning the graphics down.

Quote:
We wouldn't have to do this if Nvidia would stop cheating all the time and just display the images correctly. This is a BENCHMARK. You are not supposed to cheat. The whole point of a benchmark is to compare things on an equal footing and see which is better. Apparently Nvidia doesn't like to lose because everytime ATI's product scores better in a benchmark rendering the same quality, they just lower the quality until they win again and hope that no one notices.
Who said they have to create pixel perfect images all the time? Seriously, who said that?

If consumers are happy to pay for the IQ level offered by nvidia, whats the problem. This is how it works in all other forms of entertainment. If you're happy with Philips TV picture quality buy philips, others say its crap, you want Sony etc.. same thing.

The very nature of a benchmark is fundamentally flawed. How many IHV's are prepared to just accept that they're slower than the competition? Not many. Hence quak3, optimizations in 3dmark03 on ATI's side. Yeah they say they've removed them, but theres still loads of others in there.. ATI are lucky their PS2.0 performance is good enuff, they dont have to resort to any drastic measures. If it wasn't I'm sure the tables would be turned.

This whole situation is just an unfortunate snowballing effect of poor PS2.0 performing silicon. Nothing more.

Quote:
Guess what???? We notice. Big time!!!

At least those of us not wearing blinders.
Which would be what, 0.1% of the game playing public?
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Old 09-14-03, 09:17 AM   #118
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Quote:
ATI are lucky their PS2.0 performance is good enuff, they dont have to resort to any drastic measures. If it wasn't I'm sure the tables would be turned.
Luck has nothing to do with it ATI's ps2.0 performance.
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Old 09-14-03, 09:29 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nutty

If consumers are happy to pay for the IQ level offered by nvidia, whats the problem.
If you even have to ask this question then by all means enjoy your Nvidia card...


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Old 09-14-03, 09:32 AM   #120
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Default Re: Wait a second....

Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Candyman, CANDYMAN!!!!

(The Dig runs across the forum and grabs up Candyman in a HUGE warm fuzzy hug, spinning him around repeatedly in his exuberance!)

By the gods and all that I hold holy it has been a while and it is DAMNED good to see ya friend! How is life treating you?
It sure has been a long while Dig...life is good! How have you been? Staying outta trouble?
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