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Old 09-16-03, 08:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
I'm trying to understand their actions in the scheme of some master plan... but it just don't make sense. Period. I have no idea what this is trying to do--if they had stopped the benchmark before the game was out, it'd be different, but we've all seen it now...
Simple. No one cares what peons like us think. The masses still gobble up gfFX5200s.
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Old 09-16-03, 08:57 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
I'm trying to understand their actions in the scheme of some master plan... but it just don't make sense. Period. I have no idea what this is trying to do--if they had stopped the benchmark before the game was out, it'd be different, but we've all seen it now...
No Baron, I fear you're wrong there...this is only the begining.

It's going to get uglier the longer it goes on, but it will go on for a bit longer and it will get uglier still.

I predict the 30th is the next big day in this saga.

(BTW- I can explain their plan in three simple words: _full_ _blown_ _panic_
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Old 09-16-03, 09:00 PM   #39
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When EA and NVidia struck that deal, I said it would end up hurting gamers in the long run.

I got some news for you. This is not the end of what is happening. Make no mistake about it.

Here is how it works. The dev is using NVidia cards in their dev systems. Now most devs are pretty bright guys, but most know diddly about hardware as well.
The dev runs into problems with a shader. He calls NVidia for help. They gladly fix his problem by providing a shader that runs pretty good on the devs NVidia card, but is oh so wrong for anything else.
The dev is ignorant, as they know little about shaders (it is fairly new to a lot of devs), other than they need to use them. So they put into the NVidia shader. They may or may not realize that is will run horribly on everyone elses card and probably are not that concerned as NVidia is the lion share of the market. Right?
If you want it to work on something else, the those video card guys will have to provide you with a driver that will correct the problem. It certainly cannot be an NVidia problem.

Sound familiar? It's not the first time this has happened. It's just a different technology. This time its shaders, next week who knows.
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Old 09-16-03, 09:08 PM   #40
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Thumbs down woof

http://www.nasdaq.com/services/intlm.../44_nvidia.pdf

god I love PR wonder how much that article cost?
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Old 09-16-03, 09:41 PM   #41
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Well.. There is this side of it.

The only way Nvidia can be accomplishing things like STALKER is by some SERIOUS sacrificing of True PS2.0 type effects. Like HDR etc.

Thus its going to be Faster but look bland.

ATi can and I imagine WILL Just do the old Shader Replacement on the Fly technique that Nvidia is Becoming synonymous with. Thus Presto.. Insta Super HDR Effects and Faster to Boot on ATi hardware. Mark my words it can and HAS to happen if the market is going to remain fair.

Not only that the new XGI cards Dx9 feature set is based on DX9.0 just like ATi's. Thus I imagine they will run the Default DX9 stuff similar to the way Ati does. Meaning in the Long Run Nvidia is going to look Doubbly bad.

How Is Nvidia Going to explain that one? I dont think they can. Its one thing to play Dirty against ATi only. Its another thing to be one of 3 DX9 competitors. As that number Grows it only becomes worse.
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Old 09-16-03, 09:48 PM   #42
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If you really want to look at PS performance of between the current ATI cards... here's what it is...

9800>9700>9600>9500 (although I'm not sure if the 9600 would be better than the 9500... they use the same shaders though) > 5900>5800>5600>5200

Apparently.. I finally understood that the 5600/5200 are based off the 5800 shaders.. hence their performance are MUCH worse if you're trying to figure out how their performance to the 5900 (eg. if there was a slower 5900 version, they would be fastered than the 5600/5200 series)
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Old 09-16-03, 09:49 PM   #43
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HB, you and I were posting at the same time. I do not know if you are more optimistic or I maybe I am more pessimistic, but it will be intersting to watch it all happen.
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Old 09-16-03, 09:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
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LOL digi!

Digi,..HL2 is not going to phase them. You can bet the PR team is already at work. All they have to do is convince people that Valve wrote the game for ATI and to complain to Valve about the poor performance. You can bet NVidia already has the lawyers working overtime to quell Gabe. He is getting ready to find out why devs keep thier mouths shut about things like this.
We already see many people in this small corner of the forums/BB's who are already blaming Valve for the performance problems with NVidia cards.

The people in the know have no real voice. We bitch and complain amongst ourselves and that is the end of it. NVidia is not phased by the minute percentage of people who actually know what is going on.

Just sit back and watch it unfold. NVidia will pull it off. They have gotten away with everything else, there really is nothing to stop them.
Just for a second there I thought you were defending nVidia.
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Old 09-16-03, 09:53 PM   #45
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The Difference here is that ATi is no longer the back woods Whipping boy they used to be. I am sure XGI is not going to sit by and let their entire product line get screwed either.

Further the last 2 weeks have seen a HUGE Tide Turn against Nvidia online. Wich Equals Word of Mouth all the way down to the Local Electronics store.

I saw tonight *cough*somewhere*cough* That Catalyst Maker is not a happy camper at all. Which means that neither are the rest of the ATi folks. Dont Expect ATi to lay down and Die on this at all.
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Old 09-16-03, 10:03 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
The Difference here is that ATi is no longer the back woods Whipping boy they used to be. I am sure XGI is not going to sit by and let their entire product line get screwed either.

Further the last 2 weeks have seen a HUGE Tide Turn against Nvidia online. Wich Equals Word of Mouth all the way down to the Local Electronics store.

I saw tonight *cough*somewhere*cough* That Catalyst Maker is not a happy camper at all. Which means that neither are the rest of the ATi folks. Dont Expect ATi to lay down and Die on this at all.
Damn it, pm me that CM link NOW! I gotta know!

Oh, and I do tend to agree with Hellbinder on this one over ya Skuzzy...I don't think nVidia is going to be able to lie/cheat/steal/intimidate/sue their way out of this one, but I bet you're right and that they're going to try like hell to and it's gonna be "interesting" to watch!
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Old 09-16-03, 10:14 PM   #47
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I installed the patch build 49 for AOD. My Radeon 9700Pro is screaming with maxed details, AF 8x, AA OFF.

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Old 09-16-03, 10:16 PM   #48
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You can download here:

http://support.eidosinteractive.com/...=91&platform=3
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