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Old 09-16-03, 11:36 PM   #61
Deathlike2
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OpenGL doesn't have to offer anything over DX9.0.
That's the fact, and I was talking about OpenGL being death in that sense.
Everything what comes to the OpenGL API, comes from DX.
If I have to make choice between DX or OpenGL in order to run the game, I choose DX.
Um... the fact that OpenGL is multi-platform usable... that's good enough for me (DirectX is Windows ONLY fyi)

Heck.. even ID made Quake 3 for Linux FIRST (I dunno if it was the benchmark or the game), but there's a potential market for games on Linux...

Ignoring facts is PURELY ignorant.
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Old 09-16-03, 11:39 PM   #62
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Noone forced you to use Linux.. Linux isn't perfect... if you don't like it, don't use it (same goes for hardware, software) etc.

People running servers practically use Linux (if not Windows)... there's still much to go for Linux friendliness in comparison to Windows.. but complaining about things that YOU don't understand is pointless.
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Old 09-16-03, 11:40 PM   #63
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If I have to make choice between DX or OpenGL in order to run the game, I choose DX.
Too bad on the original HL, OpenGL mode runs BETTER than DirectX... IQ wise
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Old 09-16-03, 11:42 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
See, you just proved your complete and utter ignorance here. I point you at Knoppix. The end.
you know, seeing how not mean you were to him made me feel kinda loved

You're alot meaner to me but I guess its because you think its not a lost cause like... um.. *ahem* someone else.
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Old 09-16-03, 11:47 PM   #65
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Ok HOLD ON.

1. ATi Damn Well Does Code for OpenGL

2. ATi's Supports ARB Standard OpenGL Extensions. Which are in some cases more developed than even Nvidias

3. Nvidia has indeed spent more time With OpenGL than ATi has.

4. ATi seems to be lagging Just a bit overall in the OpenGL Dept.

5. Those times are Changing.

6. Even So ATi is as fast or Faster in nearly every OpenGL benchmark where Nvidia does not get to use Proprietary Extensions.

Having Said all that....

1. Microsoft is also invovled in OpenGL.

2. There are a small Handfull of OpenGL games compared to D3D

3. D3D has the lionshare of Developer Mindset

Having said all that....

1. OpenGL is a Fine APi

2. OpenGL is continuing to Grow as an API

3. OpenGL Ain't Goin Nowhere.

And finally and most importantly...

OpenGL Will be a major payer in the industry until the Day Carmack Dies
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Old 09-16-03, 11:59 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Bioware supports OpenGL too. I dont see how people can want the death of OpenGL.. Do you really want microsoft being the absolute driving force to the gaming industry?
If the choice was only between Microsoft or nV, I would say YES.
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Old 09-17-03, 01:34 AM   #67
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Well if Nvidia had paid Eios big money they would have some influence. I have never seen a good working patch pulled before. Sound like more bullying from good ole Nvidia.

Why does this suprise any of you. They were the same back when they crushed 3dfx out of the game. They would intimidate web sites that had 3dfx logos, they would only lend cards to sites that gave good reviews. They bought and paid of many sites. I know, I was there and knew site owners from that period.

They offered no support to 3dfx owners and went out of their way not to give 3dfx users support. They bought 3dfx intellectual rights not the company. That way they did not have to adsorb 3dfx stockholders shares. So 3dfx stockholders got nada, zero.

They have played hardball from day one. At the time people thought they were great. There really was no competition for them so people had no choice. Their hardball tactics are not working on ATI like they did on 3dfx. ATI actually has a better product and Nvidia is having a childs tantrum.



Quote:
Originally posted by Deathlike2
Doesn't that sound exactly like NVidia... except from a different company? Seem kinda odd really...

One of three things are going on here...

1) Tome Raider wasn't meant to be benched (which makes no sense in the first place)

2) NVidia pressure is being put on.. since their performance is still abysmal in DX9 shader performance..

3) Shader performance is not up to par in the developer's opinion (possibly NVidia influenced)

Well... anyways... if NVidia does this to all developers that use DX9... this needs to be STOPPED... as this kind of pressure ISN'T HELPING THE INDUSTRY.. and is pushing it back..

Developers NEED to stand up for themselves (like Valve) and tell it like it is (no PR stunt please)
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Old 09-17-03, 07:08 AM   #68
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Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Damn it, pm me that CM link NOW! I gotta know!

Oh, and I do tend to agree with Hellbinder on this one over ya Skuzzy...I don't think nVidia is going to be able to lie/cheat/steal/intimidate/sue their way out of this one, but I bet you're right and that they're going to try like hell to and it's gonna be "interesting" to watch!
I sincerely hope I am wrong, in this case. But I am not going to be surprised if they pull it off either. The masses are very fickle and, sadly, the people that are active in keeping up with what is going on are a very small minority.
And even the ones in the know would not hesitate to buy an NVidia card if it were equal to the competition's offering. It does not have to be faster, just equal and they would jump on it.
The power of marketing cannot be ignored and NVidia has been stringing consumers along for a year. Heck, they even have some devs convinced of thier superiority, or at least, keeping the devs guessing and erring to their side.

Like I said, I hope I am wrong, but we'll see.
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Old 09-17-03, 07:12 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukar
XGI looks promising, and I'm looking for it.
It would be great to see those v5 v8 cards, which are similar to ATI r300 chip, from paper. They will follow up standard DX9.0API, and that's good.

Why is it important for us their success?

It will force Nvidia to follow standard too, not to play dirty game behind the scene, paying developers to code the games using non standard 'procedures'.

ATI-Microsoft deal is also important in this sense. Most of developers will make XBOX2 games, using standard DX 9.0 API or whatever case might be, and that's gonna reflect on PC games as well.

From this time now, OPENGL is death. The only company, who supports it is ID Software. As I see, OPENGL doesn't have a future...

That's not quite right lukar. OpenGL has quite a bit support and a lot of it is outside of gaming applications. Check the Apple/Mac titles as well. They are all OpenGL.
I agree that DX has the lion share of the market, in turns of sheer numbers of titles, but OpenGL is a very viable interface and, just like the video card competition, needs to be sustained or we would never see any improvements in either API.
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Old 09-17-03, 07:29 AM   #70
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Offopic

Quote:
Originally posted by lukar
and I'm talking about linux as desktop solution...

Linux as desktop solution comparing to Windows XP i like Russian Lada compared to Dodge Viper
I remember how in around 1999-2000 people were commenting something like

"Linux on servers? You gotta be kidding!"
"Linux on mainframes? Yeah, right!"
"Linux will never have serious marketshare on servers!"
"Linux will never run big-iron machines!"
"Linux is no threat to UNIX!"

As it turns out, things didn't quite work out that way. Now, desktop is more difficult to crack since MS has over 90% market-share. But it is happening. Linux-desktops have made TRENDEMOUS advanced over the past few years and the number of users who run Linux on desktops has increased alot. And there are (again) people saying that "Linux will NEVER be a contended on the desktop!", just like they said that when it was about servers....

I have used XP. It's downright awful! W2K was the best OS MS made, it's been downhill ever since!
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Old 09-17-03, 08:49 AM   #71
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Just post a few thought from this thread, can't be ask to write a long post.

Nvidia failed to capitalise with their introduction of Nv3x and Cg, therefore they try to pay off and working "closely" with developers to make them look good and some PR craps to sell their cards.

The main problem is that they are not following standard (i.e. DX9 and OpenGL) since they thought they are big enough to play their own game, with lots of extension craps for fragment programming in OpenGL, therefore their hardware is not up to standard in terms of PS2.0 performance.

One last thing as regard to Linux, they are very important since many big cooperation and universities are using Linux machine as back-ends, and students are encourage to learn to use Linux since it gives a much fuller control to the system than MS's OS. In fact MS is still trying to emulate the success of Linux/Unix system in terms of networking and security. Whoever thinks and says they are crap or shall not exist is bunch of monkeys without a working brain.
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Old 09-17-03, 09:03 AM   #72
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Uh-oh, Hellbinder's posting sense again. OGL support on ATI is lacking at the moment, but that's just because of the relative immaturity of their OGL drivers compared to NVIDIA's. They've been focusing on D3D because yes, that's where the majority of the market is centered.
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