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Old 10-02-03, 01:54 AM   #13
mikechai
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Default Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
The fact that Nvidia in their official response to valve a couple weeks ago stated plainly that they would replace PS2.0 with PS 1.4 wherever they felt it was "Ok".

Meaning I gurantee you that even this "Mixed mode" test Nvidia is doing Specific per level application detection and completely replacing the games code with DX8 stuff. Meaning even replacing Valves own Shaders that they customized for Nvidia themselves.

It means that it is flatly not DX9 Vs DX9 at all. It is DX8 being Reported as DX9 "mixed mode". True "Mixed mode" is still DX9 it just uses FP16. This is clearly not whats happening here.

This my Friends is outright Fraud.
Agree with that part. It will definitely not an apple to apple comparison anymore.
I think ATI will have an edge on image quality no matter how good the "automatic shader replacement" is.
We just have to put that in mind when we read any reviews.

But if the new Dets able to put up that kind of score even in mixed mode or partial precision or whatever, they have already done a great job.
Then FX card owners will still have a great gaming experience with HL2.
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Old 10-02-03, 01:55 AM   #14
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Let's wait and see the final product before going on a witchhunt. These are very positive numbers, however.
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Old 10-02-03, 02:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
its still lower iq, and probably even lower iq since these cheating drivers, not to mention it still gets owned by 30fps in techdemo 5

when is punkbuster gonna detect driver cheats??
It did not mentioned which driver it used, I think it probably use the latest 52.14 driver, it has better IQ than before in beta 51.75 with lower IQ.
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Old 10-02-03, 02:05 AM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by mikechai
Agree with that part. It will definitely not an apple to apple comparison anymore.
I think ATI will have an edge on image quality no matter how good the "automatic shader replacement" is.
We just have to put that in mind when we read any reviews.

But if the new Dets able to put up that kind of score even in mixed mode or partial precision or whatever, they have already done a great job.
Then FX card owners will still have a great gaming experience with HL2.
I dont think you understand. We are not talkng about an "Edge in IQ" here. This means no HDR support, and many of the effects simply wont even be close to the same.

I have to be honest it really bugs me that people simply do not understand the nature of whats going on. Because it means that Nvidia is likely to get away with it. This is not a true representation of "Mixed-Mode". Mixed mode is FP16/FP32 and is fully DX9. Valves shaders were already completely optomized in this way for the entire FX line. This is obviously a complete Replacement of the games code as Nvidia sees fit to get their numbers up.

What if ATi Suddenly stopped rendering half the effects and reduced some Quality and gained 30FPS over what they have now. Would you guys all sit around here and Applaud ATi.. patting them on the back and Cheering for what an amazing job the Driver team did???

Yet the line of people are already forming to congradulate Nvidia as heros for doing Exactly That.
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Old 10-02-03, 02:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AthlonXP1800
It did not mentioned which driver it used, I think it probably use the latest 52.14 driver, it has better IQ than before in beta 51.75 with lower IQ.
Anand makes around 4 comments in his review regarding image Quality "issues". which he refused to go into. But in each case it was a benchmark where Nvidia had gained considerable ground.
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Last edited by Hellbinder; 10-02-03 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 10-02-03, 03:05 AM   #18
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Wow, I applaud NVIDIA's clairvoyant driver team. After the drivers are optimized NVIDIA's scores in benchmarks are always at the same level as ATI's. Amazing, isn't it? It's just one big coincidence after coincidence
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Old 10-02-03, 03:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Wow, I applaud NVIDIA's clairvoyant driver team. After the drivers are optimized NVIDIA's scores in benchmarks are always at the same level as ATI's. Amazing, isn't it? It's just one big coincidence after coincidence
LOL! Why stop there? Why not make their drivers give twice the frame rate of ATI's cards? That would be something!
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Old 10-02-03, 03:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
LOL! Why stop there? Why not make their drivers give twice the frame rate of ATI's cards? That would be something!
Then that would make it even more obvious! Actually, no, it wouldn't. It's obvious enough already
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Old 10-02-03, 04:35 AM   #21
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hehe I can't wait till the det 50's are released... hopefully they will coincide with the HL2 benchmark and cat 3.8's

/side note... I personally think that HL2 benchmark will be made avaliable for download/steam on October 8th to coincide with cat 3.8's and the first set of people receiving their 9800XT's/

I want to see IQ comparisons.... but more importantly I want the det 50's to be run in 'full DX9 mode' 'mixed mode DX9' and 'DX8 mode' to see what the IQ and speed differences are on the NV3X with the drivers over all three modes.... if the modes are practically identical with these drivers in IQ/effects/speed I think it would then be safe to say that NV has then committed fraud by declaring a DX9 setting but only using DX8 level technology...

Also I can't wait for October 31st and see what Futuremark with their new rules make of these drivers - does anyone think that NV will actually have drivers that can be allowed on that date considering the sheer effort that appears to be going into cheating right now?
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Old 10-02-03, 05:12 AM   #22
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When was HL2 benchmarked on a 5950U? Perhaps this is the card that will turn it all around.

My guess is that this benchmarks have surfaced to spoil the XT/Cat3.8 launch and will probably disappear again in a few weeks.
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Old 10-02-03, 05:21 AM   #23
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Default Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder


http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/index.html

Well, well. NV38 flexes his muscle AGAIN!

That awesome NV driver develompent team. I love those guys!
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Old 10-02-03, 05:35 AM   #24
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Default Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
The fact that Nvidia in their official response to valve a couple weeks ago stated plainly that they would replace PS2.0 with PS 1.4 wherever they felt it was "Ok".

Meaning I gurantee you that even this "Mixed mode" test Nvidia is doing Specific per level application detection and completely replacing the games code with DX8 stuff. Meaning even replacing Valves own Shaders that they customized for Nvidia themselves.

It means that it is flatly not DX9 Vs DX9 at all. It is DX8 being Reported as DX9 "mixed mode". True "Mixed mode" is still DX9 it just uses FP16. This is clearly not whats happening here.

This my Friends is outright Fraud.
as long as i don't see a huge difference in quality i won't care what Nvidia replaces in that game.
ATI payed VALVE to code that game the way they wan't to have it.
If Nvidia now replaces some things for their cards. Fine...
Pretty funny. Nice 8 Mio dollar investment
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