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Old 10-02-03, 05:35 AM   #25
ChrisW
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Default Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by nForceMan
Well, well. NV38 flexes his muscle AGAIN!

That awesome NV driver develompent team. I love those guys!
LOL! What makes you think they NV38 is so great? It's benchmarks show only a marginal improvement over the NV35.
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Old 10-02-03, 05:40 AM   #26
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by Richthofen
Nice 8 Mio dollar investment
LOL!
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Old 10-02-03, 05:42 AM   #27
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Heh, I'm waiting for the point nVidia releases Det60's with DX6 Rendering.....
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Old 10-02-03, 05:45 AM   #28
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by Richthofen
as long as i don't see a huge difference in quality i won't care what Nvidia replaces in that game.
ATI payed VALVE to code that game the way they wan't to have it.
If Nvidia now replaces some things for their cards. Fine...
Pretty funny. Nice 8 Mio dollar investment
LOL! You guys are a hoot! You should be demanding more from your graphics cards, not less. How you guys can be happy with paying more money for a card that can only compete with it's cheaper competitor by reducing image quality and taking shortcuts I'll never understand. If you guys don't start demanding more from nVidia, you will start to get less and less from them in the future. Why should they product better cards in the future if you are going to go out of your way to support their software hacks?
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Old 10-02-03, 05:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by ChrisW
LOL! What makes you think they NV38 is so great? It's benchmarks show only a marginal improvement over the NV35.
NV35 will be almost as good as NV38. It's all about automatic optimizing shader (re)compiler, and not about the hardware.
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Old 10-02-03, 05:50 AM   #30
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by nForceMan
NV35 will be almost as good as NV38. It's all about automatic optimizing shader (re)compiler, and not about the hardware.
Well, from what i've heard, the NV38 is only a speed bumped version of the NV35. The NV36 looks like it has had a few tweaks though..
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Old 10-02-03, 05:51 AM   #31
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by ChrisW
LOL! You guys are a hoot! You should be demanding more from your graphics cards, not less. How you guys can be happy with paying more money for a card that can only compete with it's cheaper competitor by reducing image quality and taking shortcuts I'll never understand. If you guys don't start demanding more from nVidia, you will start to get less and less from them in the future. Why should they product better cards in the future if you are going to go out of your way to support their software hacks?
I think some people invested a lot into their FX cards, and want SOME performance out of it. If it can make some people happy, so be it, but you'll always know the truth of the Drivers
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Old 10-02-03, 05:59 AM   #32
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by Hellbinder
I dont think you understand. We are not talkng about an "Edge in IQ" here. This means no HDR support, and many of the effects simply wont even be close to the same.

I have to be honest it really bugs me that people simply do not understand the nature of whats going on. Because it means that Nvidia is likely to get away with it. This is not a true representation of "Mixed-Mode". Mixed mode is FP16/FP32 and is fully DX9. Valves shaders were already completely optomized in this way for the entire FX line. This is obviously a complete Replacement of the games code as Nvidia sees fit to get their numbers up.

What if ATi Suddenly stopped rendering half the effects and reduced some Quality and gained 30FPS over what they have now. Would you guys all sit around here and Applaud ATi.. patting them on the back and Cheering for what an amazing job the Driver team did???

Yet the line of people are already forming to congradulate Nvidia as heros for doing Exactly That.
Believe me. I completely understand the situation.
I just say that if they could put out that kind of score, they have already done a great job(imagine how many shader codes they have to modified).
They had chosen the wrong path and now they have to work hard to get around with it.

Please note that, I didn't say this make them win. In fact, they can't win me over just because it beats 9800 score. Because I care about the image quality and the HDR effects.

But for those who had already bought a FX card, don't you think it's a good thing?
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Old 10-02-03, 06:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by theultimo
I think some people invested a lot into their FX cards, and want SOME performance out of it. If it can make some people happy, so be it, but you'll always know the truth of the Drivers
Well, you have a point there. They should do whatever it takes to make games playable on their cards. They just shouldn't do it in such a way that the end-user does not know what they are doing. There should be some kind of check box or something the end-user can select to turn this stuff on or off or at least tell them what they are doing in a readme file. They should do about anything to make the card get up to about 60fps, but after that, they are not doing it to make the game playable anymore. After 60 fps, they are just cheating to make their benchmarks look better than the competition. Is is right for them to reduce image quality just to get 120 fps when they were already getting 100 fps just because their competition is getting 110 fps? I think not.

The only reason they can even get away with this is because there is no benchmark for image quality. If there was a way to benchmark both fps and IQ, the GFFX would not be seen in such a great light.
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Last edited by ChrisW; 10-02-03 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 10-02-03, 06:14 AM   #34
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by mikechai
imagine how many shader codes they have to modified.
not many, probably just those used on benchmarks.

Quote:
Originally posted by mikechai

But for those who had already bought a FX card, don't you think it's a good thing?
but these numbers are then used to seduce potential buyers.. do you recommend these FX cards to your friends, honestly?
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Old 10-02-03, 06:22 AM   #35
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
Well, you have a point there. They should do whatever it takes to make games playable on their cards. They just shouldn't do it in such a way that the end-user does not know what they are doing. There should be some kind of check box or something the end-user can select to turn this stuff on or off or at least tell them what they are doing in a readme file. They should do about anything to make the card get up to about 60fps, but after that, they are not doing it to make the game playable anymore. After 60 fps, they are just cheating to make their benchmarks look better than the competition. Is is right for them to reduce image quality just to get 120 fps when they were already getting 100 fps just because their competition is getting 110 fps? I think not.

The only reason they can even get away with this is because there is no benchmark for image quality. If there was a way to benchmark both fps and IQ, the GFFX would not be seen in such a great light.
I think were both in agreement Having a Checkbox, something like the "Texture Sharpening" right now, or maybe a Pixel Optimization bar, like what they use for AF. That way is people want the quailty images they can, but for those people who only want the performance with no IQ, they can have their way too.
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Old 10-02-03, 06:24 AM   #36
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Well, you can force PS2.0 on FX boards with the new RivaTuner.

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