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Old 10-02-03, 06:31 AM   #37
mikechai
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
not many, probably just those used on benchmarks.
Probably.

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Originally posted by Behemoth
but these numbers are then used to seduce potential buyers..
Marketing.
What would you do if you are the boss?

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Originally posted by Behemoth
do you recommend these FX cards to your friends, honestly?
I won't.
To tell you the truth, I have been recommending my friends to buy ATI R3xx card since October last year, till now.
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Old 10-02-03, 06:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
I like the way they keep posting benchmarks that they are not sure of and from "other sources". This has a bad smell to it.

How could they have doubled performance? They already had a special code path that reduced precision. I think the strategy here is to get these benchmarks leaked now using these hacked drivers knowing Valve will disable the cheats in the final version of the game. Then nVidia will claim Valve is disabling performance on GFFX cards just to punish nVidia and their customers (what they did with 3DMark03) and these benchmarks will be their "proof".
I think we now know for sure why HL2 was delayed. Nothing more than workarounds for the NV35.. Talk about the gaming world taking a step back. We might as well be using GLIDE again.

Money talks, BS walks, and I think the big [N] just bought Gabe.

I guess we should reserve judgement until we see screenshots, but I can already see where this is going., "Based on zooming in you can see that ATI has better image quality, but being that we don't look at the scenery in FPS we can just forgive [N] for this...." This is getting old really. Of course I am sure some certain hardware sites will just say I am making this up, and I am not talking about NVnews.

Cinematic gaming... uh huh...
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Old 10-02-03, 06:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by serAph
ya - I sure would like to know wtf is going on here - especially before I go and run out and buy a 9800...
Which is exactly what Anand and [N] are hoping you will do.
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Old 10-02-03, 07:33 AM   #40
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I wonder how much NVidia payed Valve to hold off shipping the product so they could go through and hand replace the shaders in the driver?

Yet, there are still those that support NVidia's pathetic attempt to artificially increase performance. I suppose those same people would be happy if the polys were all blank, as long the FPS was high. Maybe extreme, but that is how some of you are sounding.

Go ahead and pay a premium for a product that cannot perform well and have to wait on NVidia to hand replace code to make it play well. What are you going to do when the next big game comes out? Just wait until NVidia hand replaces the code again, and again, and again? Sort of like waiting on a roofer to come fix the leaks in the roof. "Well, we need to wait until it rains before we can fix the leak and we can only fix one leak at a time." I had no idea there were people that would support this, much less tolerate it.
Why should I bust my butt writting code to make nice eye candy when, apparently, most people do not really care about it? And do not say you do care about it if you currently support NVidia's hacking to get rid of the eye candy.

Why anyone would consider paying over $400 for a video card that has to be hand massaged to make it playable with decent eye candy, for each big title, is simply beyond me. And do not come back with the pathetic Doom3 argument. These FX products are probably a major reason why the game has been delayed, while Carmack tries to hand code for these badly designed pieces of hardware.

The sheep are winning and I find it disgusting.
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Old 10-02-03, 07:33 AM   #41
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That has to be IQ loss in those benchmark results......besides, even if those numbers were true with all DX9 features and **** - i still would not buy FX card.....because AntiAliasing on Radeon cards is soo much better...Id never go back to my previous fx 5900........
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Old 10-02-03, 07:47 AM   #42
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by Richthofen
as long as i don't see a huge difference in quality...
you will.

unless you do the old fanboy trick of subconsciously filtering the differences like many reviewers.
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Old 10-02-03, 07:59 AM   #43
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

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Originally posted by Hellbinder
I have to be honest it really bugs me that people simply do not understand the nature of whats going on. Because it means that Nvidia is likely to get away with it. This is not a true representation of "Mixed-Mode". Mixed mode is FP16/FP32 and is fully DX9. Valves shaders were already completely optomized in this way for the entire FX line. This is obviously a complete Replacement of the games code as Nvidia sees fit to get their numbers up.
Not necessarily. Though Valve did make a mixed mode path, AFAIK there are other things Nvidia could attempt to optimize during shader compilation such as reordering instructions for their shader architecture. In the original HL2 benchmarks, the 5900 Ultra was only 20% behind the 9800PRO - based on the nature of NV3x, I see that number able to be made up with optimizations. And, as we can see from the final result of 3dmark03, Nvidia's shader replacement can look just as good as the original if they work hard enough on it, while offering very fast speeds.
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Old 10-02-03, 08:01 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Go ahead and pay a premium for a product that cannot perform well and have to wait on NVidia to hand replace code to make it play well. What are you going to do when the next big game comes out? Just wait until NVidia hand replaces the code again, and again, and again? Sort of like waiting on a roofer to come fix the leaks in the roof. "Well, we need to wait until it rains before we can fix the leak and we can only fix one leak at a time." I had no idea there were people that would support this, much less tolerate it.
Now that Nvidia DX9 hardware is out and developers can start using it to develop their games from the ground up, Nvidia won't be in this situation as often in the future.
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Old 10-02-03, 08:13 AM   #45
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I thought the nv3x hardware is borked it cannot do HDR ever.

This is a good thing b/c it allows the poor saps that have these cards to play, what Nvidia should do is admit what they did, they should put up a list of what was replaced and say, "This is not a valid comparison for benchmarking purposes, but we wanted to give our users the best experience possible on their cards even if valve didn't"

See then their PR gets to take a stab at valve which they are dying to do I assure you, as well as try to look as though they are trying to help the consumer w/o being accused of cheating.

Some people will still cry cheater cheater, but only those that just like to whine.
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Old 10-02-03, 08:19 AM   #46
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Default Re: Anand posts Initial HL2 results with new Dets

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder


One word from me...

Disturbing.
Uhm..why is it disturbing?

Drop your attitude for one minute and think of the "not so happy" FX5900 owners out there

I'm sure they don't think it's disturbing at all that they are gonna be able to play H-L2 with their $400 cards.
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Old 10-02-03, 08:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by sxotty
I thought the nv3x hardware is borked it cannot do HDR ever.
That's the assumption, but Nvidia might be able to pull something out of their ass. Also, lets wait and see how well ATI runs it in actual gameplay.

Quote:
This is a good thing b/c it allows the poor saps that have these cards to play,
I don't consider myself a poor sap. The games I am playing right now run better on Nvidia cards, or run just as good on either hardware (Neverwinter Nights, Anarchy Online, Tron 2.0, BridgeIt, Warcraft3, Rollercoaster Tycoon, etc). I'm not even buying Half Life 2 for the PC, I'm getting for XBOX since that's what all my friends who play online have.

Quote:
what Nvidia should do is admit what they did, they should put up a list of what was replaced and say, "This is not a valid comparison for benchmarking purposes, but we wanted to give our users the best experience possible on their cards even if valve didn't"
Why should they do that? Reviewers can put up IQ comparisons and let the reader judge for themselves if they see a difference. It's not a 'valid comparison' from the start regardless of what the drivers do because the NV3x and R3xx architecture are both vastly different and need to be optimized differently from the start; hence a truly 100% no-bones about it 'valid comparison' is impossible - heck, you can't even get them to use the same shader precision.
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Old 10-02-03, 08:26 AM   #48
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They have the right to whine for all that nvidia has done,when you pay $500 for a card you don't want to have half ass drivers for a piece of hardware that siad it was capable of DX9 but has do it in DX8.1 to get decent framerate at the cost of something else.He should'nt have posted something he did'nt even do.They sould have been I.Q comparesion.this was more than likely sent to be posted because of the R9800xt lanched.
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