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Old 09-16-02, 07:32 PM   #1
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Exclamation APM (nonsuspend) hard-lockups - I READ THE FAQ

Hey all,

This isn't the first time, but the old forums were wiped, and we have a new driver, so I'm calling this to the attention of those nvidia developers trolling around

I (and several others that I've spoken to in the past) have experienced random hard-freezes with APM *enabled* in the kernel but without doing any sort of apm action (e.g. suspend, etc).

This has been going on since I've had my geforce2go (dell inspiron 4100), all of the driver versions I've used, all of the kernel versions I've used. Unilaterally stops when passing apm=off to the kernel at boot time. Annoying random hard (read: must hold power switch) lockups with apm enabled. I've not tried to compile in the magic-SysRq-key to the kernel and try it, perhaps that would somehow manage to kill X or restart the box.

AGP is not the culprit. AGP enabled, disabled, no difference. Internal or AGPGart no difference. Nothing.

So, basically the above statement has happened with the following version numbers around:

Xfree 4.2.0 (binary release from xfree86.org using xinstall.sh)
Kernel 2.4.17 -> 2.4.19
Nvidia drivers 2313 and up

I had a protracted email conversation with Andy Ritger (nvidia employee) about this some time ago and even pointed out a recurring, reproducible bug. It was for gnome 1.4, when running the xscreensaver capplet and browsing the previews of different savers, several among them caused the hard-lockup phenomena. Since then, I've compiled gnome2 and am running it, xscreensaver-demo doesn't freeze anymore, but I still manage to get hard locks at inopportune moments, mostly when working with mozilla, although it happens generally when doing some significant amount of scrolling in any app. This includes (but isn't limited to) scrolling in pull-down menus that are too large for the screen.

A recent side-effect I've been noticing (which may or may not be connected to the driver) is the fact that occasionally apm (when enabled) fails to generate battery status, listing 0x0's in the entries of /proc/apm. This comes and goes, too -- OK 1 minute, 0x0 the next. When status does come back, it's in the right place, e.g. the battery isn't thinking it's empty or something. Seeing as I have no trouble with battery reporting under windows, it is confined to the linux side. Said battery reporting issues do not happen when not in X, and I'm not relying on an intermediary to check this, I've been looking at /proc/apm directly. My guess is that it has something to do with the nvidia driver.

The reason this bug is relevant and important for laptop users is that without APM there's no way to read battery status at all, and none of the basic power-conservation features inherent in APM work, i.e. cpu clock speed management for speedstep pIII's or amd what-have-you. There's no way to know how much battery life is remaining short of rebooting into The Other OS. This is a serious usability problem, even without considering that battery life under non-APM linux is significantly shorter because the good powersaving features are disabled.

I appreciate that there are all manner of goals for the development of the driver, and that it isn't going to be open-sourced anytime soon. So basically I'm asking to kick this bug up a notch in terms of visibility and priority -- I'm not asking for suspend-resume support. All I want is working apm compatibility.

If there's some tool you'd like me to run I'd be happy. I don't quite know how to go about triaging hard-freezes, I don't think it even has time to dump core when it dies.


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Old 09-17-02, 04:50 PM   #2
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Default Second

As another owner of a Dell Inspiron (8100) I'd like to second that vote for developer time allocated to the APM problem... it really would enhance the usability of Linux on my machine.

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Old 10-22-02, 01:05 AM   #3
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Default me three

nice, happy (hot grits) Dell 8200 and this is the only thing that truly sucks about the setup. you can hand-patch the kernel driver (as of a few releases back) with a one-liner, but it's insane that I should have to do that each time. can someone throw that fix in and be done with it?
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Old 11-08-02, 11:04 PM   #4
Juan Bill
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does anyone here have installed mandrake 9.0 on a dell inspirion 4100 with geforce2go card and actiontec modem running mandrake smoothly without any problems??????
so could you email me with the drivers that you installed for the mandrake 9.0 installation.
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Old 11-08-02, 11:16 PM   #5
Juan Bill
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I think this is where i could be heard then.
I have a dell inspirion 4100 with geforce2go 32 ddr ram. and actiontec modem.
I'm quiet a newbie with linux. The current installation linux is Mandrake 9.0.
I have equiped the system with the 3123 nvidia drivers and made the correct changes to the XF86Config-4 file as suggested and download the drivers for my hsflinmodem from conexant.
My pattern of lockup is whenever i'm online and activated an opengl program/game the laptop locks up. I have no idea which fault it is. the modems or the graphics card?
Anyway IF i'm not online and activated the opengl program it does not lock up.

There is one exception is that if i activated an opengl game that does not require the desktop resolution change. And THEN go on the internet. No lockup.

I know some ppl have the same specifications laptop within this forum as me. So please speak up if you experience similarities or HAVE a solution that i eager for .
else... cheerio
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Old 11-12-02, 03:57 AM   #6
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Default How to patch ther kernel driver

Hi mr-allen,

How do I patch the kernel driver? What change is required?

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Old 11-19-02, 08:16 AM   #7
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Default My vote for APM support

As a long-term linux notebook user, I must agree! APM for my box now!

I love the geforce 4, I love linux, but a notebook that freezes when suspending is simply not acceptable!

Please NVidia people, spend some more time on developing APM support!
I promise to buy your next card (and the next, and the next *grin)

But seriously, this needs to be addressed IMHO.
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Old 11-20-02, 02:08 AM   #8
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Thumbs down My experiences with random crashes of NVIDIA

First I just want to reiterate that this is NOT about getting suspend to work with the driver as some people are confused to think. While getting suspend to work would be nice (really, really nice!) this is a bug/fix request to get the driver NOT TO HANG the system when APM is enabled.

I have exprienced these random freezes myself. They seem to happen when APM is enabled in the kernel. At some random point of using my inspiron 4100 the computer totally freezes. I can move the cursor around, but thats it. And its not just X frozen, as I can't poing or ssh into my machine as well. When i hit the power button it immediatelly shuts off, which is anothewr sign of a total freeze - as when the machine is working properly you hjave to hold down the power button for a few seconds to get it to reboot.

This seems to be somehow related to the touchpad as the machine never seems to freeze when I am typing, just when I am scrolling or mousing around. I have also notice that the cursor will start to drift in some random direction every now and then.
I am fairly certain that this behavior does not occur in XP or when I am using the open source driver. It happens regardless which window manager I am using.

I am using gentoo on an inspiron 4100 with a geforce 2go. I would love to see suspend working properly, but before that it would be nice not to have my system freeze randomly when I am working. This is the only thing preventing me from enjoying linux on my notebook. NVIDIA developers please help!

Anyone else experiencing post your expriences please to make it easier for them to debug.

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Old 11-20-02, 06:56 AM   #9
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APM is enabled in my kernel with no problems at all...

# CONFIG_ACPI is not set
# CONFIG_APM_RTC_IS_GMT is not set
I haven't tried suspend, but power save mode works just fine...

Using 3123 drivers.

If your mouse is drifting, is it optical? Mine does that a bit, because the surface it's on isn't the greatest for optical mice (a bit too reflective)...

Does disabling the RENDER acceleration help your problem at all? Option "NoRenderAccel" "1" in your X config file will disable accelerating it. I think that was a solution for problems when scrolling, for other people...
Registered Linux User #219692
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Old 12-27-02, 07:43 AM   #10
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Default Same problem with NVIDIA 3123/kernel 2.4.20


I've the same problem, like the the original poster idangazit.

I'm using Mandarke 9.0 French, with kernel 2.4.20 APM enabled:

# CONFIG_APM_RTC_IS_GMT is not set

Hardware :
mother board A7V133
CPU athlon XP 1600
graphic board GeForce 2MX 400

lspci gives :
00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8363/8365 [KT133/KM133] (rev 03)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8363/8365 [KT133/KM133 AGP]
00:04.0 ISA bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super South] (rev 40)
00:04.1 IDE interface: VIA Technologies, Inc. Bus Master IDE (rev 06)
00:04.2 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB (rev 16)
00:04.3 USB Controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. USB (rev 16)
00:04.4 Bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT82C686 [Apollo Super ACPI] (rev 40)
00:09.0 Multimedia audio controller: Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI (rev 02)
00:0a.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Lucent Microelectronics FW323 (rev 04)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 MX] (rev b2)

*The problem*
When my box goes in suspend mode, it hangs.

No problem when NVdriver is not loaded.
AGP is not the culprit. AGP enabled, disabled, no difference. Internal or AGPGart no difference. Nothing.
No problem when i boot with kernel parameter apm=off.
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