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Old 10-12-03, 07:38 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by rth
where is ATI using cheats please?

and what you constantly fail to mention is scale which IS important.

you know nvidia is guilty and since you can't make nvidia sound good, you have to try to drag ATI down to the same level.

ATI isn't perfect but they are nowhere near as bad as nvidia.

it's very sad to see your blind defense on nvidia. many other nvidia fans are enjoying ATI hardware.

ATI were better last year, are better at the moment, and are likely to be better for at the very least the next 6 months. get over it ffs.
Quake 3, 3Dmark01, 3Dmark03 is the ones that we know about. according to s3 'optmizations' or cheats as we call them are and allways will be common place, infact s3 even cheats in 3dmark01.

You need to get over that your 'better' company is cheating, witch brings up the point again. Where did i start to say nvidia has better hardware? You are again bringing up something from noware.
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Old 10-12-03, 07:42 PM   #98
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A few personal acquaintances of mine, that use to work for SGI, got hired at nVidia, are now at ATI

I also heard a rumor that it was because nVidia kept the GeForce name...which is similar to yours.

I dunno though, personally I think that with the xSGI team ATi is going to kill nVidia performance wise. The 9700 still shows more promise than the 5900 on sheer technological advantage and scalability. I tried both Halo and HDRTL demo and it spanked his 5900. I find it very interesting that FP24 performs so well on R3xx and FP16 only performs decent on NV3x.

nVidia still has the best driver team. That's their crown jewel. They just have crappy hardware to work with, and ATi's hardware folks are able to compensate for ATI's software team.

ATi's software folks just have to implement all the hardware and boom, they are in the lead. Very cohesive team at least, but not as good as nVidia's use to be.

I'm still fixated on the fact that about 1/3rd of nVidia's core "talent" now consists of 3dfx guys, 3dfx guys who botched it for 3dfx.....I think it's happening at nVidia now too. Feature creep, perpetual dev cycles...etc.

The NV30 was a daikatana almost.
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Old 10-12-03, 07:44 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by rth
ATI's cheats in quake 3 and 3dmark2003 are gone.

where does ATI have cheats right now?

ATI never cheated on the same scale as nvidia. their ~4% 3dmark2003 cheat does not compare with nvidia's clip plane cheats or permanently overriding user settings in UT2003.

and nothing ATI has ever done compares with the BS nvidia is pulling by threatening futuremark and getting Tomb Raider bug fixes withdrawn because nvidia hardware performs badly.
Nope, only the 3dmark03 cheat is gone, the rest is still there.

Basicly ATi did this.

Cheating in a benchmark program is bad, thats why we removed the 3dmark03 cheats.

Then after anti-cheat investigations people find that they are still cheating in 3dmark01.

So useing ati's statement cheating is bad?

But you seem to pretend that that never happens and then say yeah ati is so great, they dont cheat. When in reality, they cheat, then say they frown upon cheating, then continue to cheat at will.
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Old 10-12-03, 07:48 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by rth
and nothing ATI has ever done compares with the BS nvidia is pulling
Didn't ATi pay Valve several millions of dollars ($6 million, if that financial report analysis is to be believed) to have HL2 run far better on ATi hardware? Or rather, far worse on nVidia hardware.

Still, I'm sure that won't count as cheating once ATi apologise for it

Oooh, I'm gonna be flamed for this.... darn me and my fact-based honest appraisals....
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Old 10-12-03, 07:50 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally posted by rth
ATI's cheats in quake 3 and 3dmark2003 are gone.

where does ATI have cheats right now?
You skipped past my question where does nVidia have cheats?
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Old 10-12-03, 07:57 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by GlowStick
Nope, only the 3dmark03 cheat is gone, the rest is still there.

Basicly ATi did this.

Cheating in a benchmark program is bad, thats why we removed the 3dmark03 cheats.

Then after anti-cheat investigations people find that they are still cheating in 3dmark01.

So useing ati's statement cheating is bad?

But you seem to pretend that that never happens and then say yeah ati is so great, they dont cheat. When in reality, they cheat, then say they frown upon cheating, then continue to cheat at will.
so you're only claiming that ATI is cheating in 3dmark2001 and quake3.

the quake3 cheat is long gone (and does anyone still bench with this?), and who cares about 3dmark2001 anyway?

are you really suggesting that this is as bad as nvidia's actions in CURRENT games and benchmarks? plus they are cheating in many more games and doing so in a way that lowers IQ very noticably. in the case of UT2003, they are also FORCING this lower IQ no matter what you select.

ATI's 3dmark2003 cheat was reordering things to make them a bit faster. nvidia's cheat was completely rewriting them to produce different results and then sticking in clip planes - effectively precomputed states.

if you think these are as bad as each other then there's only one word for that: nvidiotcy
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Old 10-12-03, 07:58 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by PenguinJim
You skipped past my question where does nVidia have cheats?
blinded by ignorance? :

Quote:
"...nvidia's clip plane cheats or permanently overriding user settings in UT2003."
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Old 10-12-03, 08:00 PM   #104
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My bad, from all the posts I assumed nVidia had cheated in more than one game!!! So on the one hand with have the righteous ATi, who have only cheated in one game and two benchmarks, so can be forgiven. But then there's the EVIL nVidia, whose black hearts have seen fit not only to cheat in two benchmarks, but an actual GAME as well!!!

lol your logic defies, um, logic
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Old 10-12-03, 08:07 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by PenguinJim
My bad, from all the posts I assumed nVidia had cheated in more than one game!!! So on the one hand with have the righteous ATi, who have only cheated in one game and two benchmarks, so can be forgiven. But then there's the EVIL nVidia, whose black hearts have seen fit not only to cheat in two benchmarks, but an actual GAME as well!!!

lol your logic defies, um, logic
even if UT2003 were the only game nvidia cheats in, the fact remains nvidia is cheating in a game right now. ATI is not.

even ignoring all the other cases of nvidia's cheating and foul play, this alone makes them different.

off to work. gg.
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Old 10-12-03, 08:10 PM   #106
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I'd say the $6 million ATi paid Valve to have the HL2 benchmarks show ATi in an unrealistic positive light makes ATi pretty 'special', too

I didn't realise nVidia were still cheating in UT2003. Why isn't there still a big hoo-ha about this? Surely that was a 44.03 'issue', and hence not valid any more?
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Old 10-12-03, 08:20 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by PenguinJim
You skipped past my question where does nVidia have cheats?
http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/deto...14/index_e.php
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Old 10-12-03, 08:21 PM   #108
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God would you people please stop with the $6 million thing. The money was for a marketing deal so that ATI could include HL2 with their graphics card, not to make ATI perform better than NV.
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