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Old 02-06-05, 09:50 AM   #13
hotbelgo
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

I don't see how nVidia can say that video-in is not a feature, as their site talks about their wonderful nvtv system.
I bought an nvidia card precisely because I did think they cared about Linux users.
RivaTV does not work for me and there is very little help and development.
This is unquestionably the last nVidia card I buy
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Old 02-06-05, 02:24 PM   #14
silentplummet
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Exactly.
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Old 02-06-05, 10:38 PM   #15
Ironi
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotbelgo
I bought an nvidia card precisely because I did think they cared about Linux users.
Same here... However, coming from someone whose last two cards originated from a certain Canadian company, I can say that nVidia does care about Linux users. At least, to a much greater degree than that certain Canadian company. nVidia just doesn't care enough to implement much more than decent 3D though, apparently.

Quote:
RivaTV does not work for me and there is very little help and development.
This is unquestionably the last nVidia card I buy
That's a somewhat short-sighted statement, considering the alternative... Personally, I'll just go for barebones (cheaper) nVidia cards in the future and get Video/TV-in features with standalone cards from e.g. Hauppage. nVidia obviously doesn't want to do business with Linux users who could use Personal Cinema features, so take your business elsewhere.
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Old 02-07-05, 02:11 AM   #16
hotbelgo
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Angry Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironi
That's a somewhat short-sighted statement, considering the alternative... Personally, I'll just go for barebones (cheaper) nVidia cards in the future and get Video/TV-in features with standalone cards from e.g. Hauppage. nVidia obviously doesn't want to do business with Linux users who could use Personal Cinema features, so take your business elsewhere.
OK, that was too hard on the rivatv developers. What I meant is that this is regrettably not an active project, and the drivers seem to have fallen behind the hardware development.

That said, I only seem to be able to get a black/white picture when booting and using windows, and now I've even lost sound in windows. And once you lose something in windows, uninstalling and renistalling drivers rarely seems to work - I may need to reinstall completely :-(
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Old 02-07-05, 03:33 AM   #17
Ironi
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotbelgo
OK, that was too hard on the rivatv developers. What I meant is that this is regrettably not an active project, and the drivers seem to have fallen behind the hardware development.
By "short-sighted statement" I was referring to "this is unquestionably the last nVidia card I buy." Sorry about that.


FWIW, my take on the RivaTV project is that they try (tried?) their best with, as far as I can tell, little to no help nor cooperation from nVidia or board manufacturers. In fact, nVidia even appears to be actively working against the project, breaking compatibility and (based on zander's apparent avoidance of these threads) refusing even to take a position on Personal Cinema support. I expect nothing from RivaTV; nothing more needs to be said.
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Old 02-11-05, 06:45 AM   #18
hotbelgo
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

The rivatv programmer contributed this very recently to the mailing list.

"All these problems are about the SAA7174HL module. As I told some time
ago the module is preliminary. It ist able to drive the chip using i2c
and is also able to set certain properties of the chip. Unfortunately
there is the "magic switch" missing which enables the chip to output its
data to the YUV input of the nvidia chip. In all other decoder modules
it was a single bit in a "general purpose" register which I found by
"good guess/chance". So in fact the module is not working yet. We need
someone wildly testing the registers using the /proc file system interface."

I've written very politely to Philips to ask/beg their help and to point out that NVTV cards represent a great option for SFF PVRs (because they fit in the AGP slot and allow a second tuner to be put in the remaining PCI slot) - perhaps others could do the same (staying ultra polite).

Clearly, nvidia should join in too - their cards have a great opportunity but right as of now no Linux user should touch them!

HB
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Old 02-15-05, 05:01 AM   #19
hotbelgo
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

It hardly constitutes a breakthrough but there is some progress in diagnosing the challenge for rivatv on the mailing list. Anyone not already following it should see the XFX thread at http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/f...?forum_id=4201

We any help from anyone that understands a little how to get drivers running.
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Old 03-25-05, 03:21 AM   #20
Klemmerle
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Lightbulb Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbird
Video-in is not an official Nvidia feature. It is something varioius card manufacturers have added themself. Even on Windows supporting this is the task of the card manufacturer, so why would they support it on Linux?
1) ...card manufacturers have added themself...
Who developed the drivers for Windows? I assume it was nvidia, who else woud have had the knowledge

2) I also assume that the Windows drivers use the I2C bus. So it's also proofed that it is possible to develop drivers for Linux. Fast and stable!

3) Since it seems nvidia has not the money to pay the developers I wouldn't mind to donate some bucks to a fond called "Linux-Video-IN for nvidia cards".
I am shure others wouldn't too.


Regards,
Klemmerle

Last edited by Klemmerle; 03-25-05 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 03-25-05, 05:49 AM   #21
PrakashP
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Thunderbird's statement is pretty wrong, I guess. I had an Elsa Galdiac Gf2 GTS once and I used the Nvidia WDM driver to get my video in working in w2k ... I have forgotten the its name. It is a seperate package beside the graphics driver which needs to be installed.

So yes, I think it is *not* completely unsupported by Nvidia under Windows...
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Old 03-25-05, 06:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Nvidia had some unofficial hooks at the time. Now on windows they support it more officially. Anyway the issue with tvin is that for stable functioning the nvidia driver and the tvin part (which is not just i2c) need to work together. The only way would be to have official nvidia support for this. Another issue is that just i2c support and the other nvidia functionality isn't enough. Inside the linux kernel / rivatv there is already supported for lots of tvin related chips but al these drivers are licensed under the GPL. Don't think it is legal for GPLed drivers to depend on closed source code. This means that nvidia also has to provide their own chipset drivers which is a lot more work...
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Old 03-28-05, 10:23 AM   #23
jlo
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Question Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbird
Nvidia had some unofficial hooks at the time. Now on windows they support it more officially. Anyway the issue with tvin is that for stable functioning the nvidia driver and the tvin part (which is not just i2c) need to work together. The only way would be to have official nvidia support for this.
Rivatv worked without DMA with nvidia binary driver up to and including v 5336, but not after that.
(a short) explanation why Video-In doesn't work with nvidia binary driver


I understand it is abit more difficult to get rivatv work with DMA using the same GPU and chips as nvidia binary driver, but could there first be the same access to chips as in v5336, so rivatv would at least work without DMA? It doesn't allow one to capture video then, the system is too slow, but it does allow to view video in overlay mode. Maybe even put an "Option" in xorg.conf so the nvidia binary driver would allow this restricted somewhat buggy simultaneous access to the chips? This first step would at least give limited access to these features many many nVidia cards have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbird
Another issue is that just i2c support and the other nvidia functionality isn't enough. Inside the linux kernel / rivatv there is already supported for lots of tvin related chips but al these drivers are licensed under the GPL. Don't think it is legal for GPLed drivers to depend on closed source code. This means that nvidia also has to provide their own chipset drivers which is a lot more work...
I wonder, what would nvidia really loose, if it would open, even partly, the source code for nvidia driver? The copyright still could be kept in nVidia, but people then could provide patches to make this work. There hardly is any technical secrets which wouldn't be known by competitors anyway. Also the 3D-part (especially CineFX) could be kept closed source, only to open the code for interface and API to the chips, if that is the main problem in opening it fully. Video-in would not need CineFX features of the GPU and the other chips.

There is only limited amount of Siemens SAAXXXX chips which would need support. First write a open source module for example for SAA7108E (most common), which would work with other parts of the closed source code driver. Then people could write patches to that module so other SAAXXXX chips would work also through the same documented interface. Basically just make a documented API into the binary driver, which rivatv folks could use instead using the hardware straight. When people would want to use Video-In at the same time as 3D-functions, they would tell it to the rivatv driver.
ie: modprobe rivatv [xorgdriver=<nv|nvidia>]

Even now open (MIT/X11 license) source upper layer driver Xorg is working with closed source lower layer binary driver (nvidia). nvidia driver highly depends on that open source code. It can be made so that also Video-in type of upper layer driver would work through the same lower layer binary driver (nvidia).

wm (open)
|
Xorg (open)
\
nvidia.ko (closed) --> hardware
/
rivatv.ko (open)
|
mplayer (open)

The whole another thing is, if rivatv folks and people would ever want to support this new API or just support the open source nv-driver, but at least then some justified whining would stop.
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Old 03-28-05, 10:45 AM   #24
silentplummet
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Default Re: will there ever be official support for Video-in?

YES! As I've said a hundred times, NVidia need not officially support video-in. Just stop breaking existing community support; at least allow us to do the #$%@ job for you.
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