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Old 10-23-03, 04:40 PM   #49
The Baron
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Originally posted by StealthHawk
NO Movies have motion blur, which trick your eyes into thinking they see smooth movement of frames. This is a common fallacy. Please read up on why the logic is incorrect.
Oh, I think we all know the solution to this.

T-BUFFER, ANYONE?

if you can't tell this is a joke, god help you
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Old 10-23-03, 04:41 PM   #50
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Originally posted by The Baron
so basically, what HB is saying is that once you hit 60FPS with Doom 3, you can hit near-infinite FPS because you don't have to render anything more than 60FPS.

so scores over 60 don't mean squat.
Scores over 60 will still be valuable as benchmark data. And that is the point of this thread.

Higher framerates just won't give you an advantage like they did in other iD games.
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Old 10-23-03, 04:42 PM   #51
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Originally posted by StealthHawk
Scores over 60 will still be valuable as benchmark data.

Higher framerates just won't give you an advantage like they did in other iD games.
hmmm.. well, for a time at least. by the time the cards with an obscene amount of GDDR3 or whatever roll around, frame caching will be possible and WILL be used.
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Old 10-23-03, 05:06 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Scores over 60 will still be valuable as benchmark data. And that is the point of this thread.

Higher framerates just won't give you an advantage like they did in other iD games.
How do you figure? What good is it to anyone to display a bunch of Re-Rendered frames over and over? Not to mention the plethera of Driver Cheats that could be done.

Anything over 60FPS results are completely Invalidated for consideration in benchmarking in this game.
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Old 10-23-03, 05:14 PM   #53
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Originally posted by Hellbinder
How do you figure? What good is it to anyone to display a bunch of Re-Rendered frames over and over? Not to mention the plethera of Driver Cheats that could be done.

Anything over 60FPS results are completely Invalidated for consideration in benchmarking in this game.
The whole point of benchmarking is to render a scene as fast as possible. It doesn't matter what is in that scene, as long as it stresses the card. Who's to say there will not be a benchmark mode where the game does not run internally at 60fps?
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Old 10-23-03, 05:38 PM   #54
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By the same logic that some of you are using to say doom3 will be useless for benchmarking you should also be saying any numbers in any review that exceed the refresh rate are useless as well...

At a refresh rate of 85, any framerates above that rate cannot physically be displayed -they are written to the frame buffer and discarded...

StealtHawk brings some common sense to the rescue, how many of you believe your rig is going to be able to hit a consistent 60fps in doom3 at say 1280*1024 with 4xaa and 16xaf applied ? I can answer that quite comfortabley with NONE....

To take it a step further, what good does it to do to see quake3 benchmarks with card a at 400 fps and card b at 380 fps ? Once again the answer is none unless you want to get into an argument over whose card can throw away more frames...

If anything we may finally have a benchmark where the numbers are relative...
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Old 10-23-03, 05:55 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by walkndude
By the same logic that some of you are using to say doom3 will be useless for benchmarking you should also be saying any numbers in any review that exceed the refresh rate are useless as well...

At a refresh rate of 85, any framerates above that rate cannot physically be displayed -they are written to the frame buffer and discarded...

StealtHawk brings some common sense to the rescue, how many of you believe your rig is going to be able to hit a consistent 60fps in doom3 at say 1280*1024 with 4xaa and 16xaf applied ? I can answer that quite comfortabley with NONE....

To take it a step further, what good does it to do to see quake3 benchmarks with card a at 400 fps and card b at 380 fps ? Once again the answer is none unless you want to get into an argument over whose card can throw away more frames...

If anything we may finally have a benchmark where the numbers are relative...
Actually that is incorrect.

Generally games are not caped or Forcably synced this way in the rendering process. Which is why you get screen tearing with Vsync off in most games. It is basically splicing multiple frames together in the same rendering cycle...

A totally different matter than this where the game will only output 60 new frames in one second.
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Old 10-23-03, 06:37 PM   #56
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actually you dont know what your talking about as usual hb, but I'll concede as "debating" anything with you is pointless...

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Old 10-23-03, 07:13 PM   #57
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If I'm reading this correctly, the cap has nothing whatever to do with screen refresh rates. If you have a different refresh rate, then you will see the same frame refreshed on your monitor two or more times in some instances. There's no timing relationship between the engine calculating position and providing detail via the video card to the frame buffer and refresh rate, and further, I don't think there's any timing relationship in this case between the data the engine feeds the VC and the frames the VC provides the frame buffer...I think (maybe mistaken) that although the card might not get any new positional data from the engine, it may still, in fact, render another frame with the same data. If you enable v-sych, then the same thing as above occurs, only you lose the half-images that result when the frame buffer outputs two frames for the same refresh on the monitor (tearing). You will still see differences between cards as they will obviously not maintain 60fps in this title until, perhaps, 2005 or so. Even in that case, you will still have the IQ to throw in the equation.
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Old 10-23-03, 07:17 PM   #58
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this is good in my eyes. Focus more on IQ.
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Old 10-24-03, 08:59 AM   #59
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They've capped it at 60hz for the console port pure and simple.

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I guess R420/Nv40 will need a different measuring stick
That would be the Microsoft recognised DX9 benchmark....the HL2 engine.

Nvidia are still going to get their arses handed to them by ATI.

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Old 10-24-03, 10:06 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by PsychoAus
They've capped it at 60hz for the console port pure and simple.



That would be the Microsoft recognised DX9 benchmark....the HL2 engine.

Nvidia are still going to get their arses handed to them by ATI.

Nah, it's fixed because it's far more stable that way, the Q3 jumping difference example is due to rounding errors that comes from the variable gamelogics fps rate. Console ports have nothing to do with this.

And lets wait till the nv40/r420 are actually avalable and reviewed before making any judgments about their powers.
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