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Old 11-12-03, 05:09 PM   #13
cthellis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malficar
Benches were not intended to be the manhood measuring they have become, but were rather intended to be a useful tool.
Nor are frames per second in games, either, but they'll still be latched onto in the same way. AND they'll still carry the same kind of weight in reviews. Everything has relevance--it's just up to the reviewers (and after that, the individuals themselves) to properly frame the context and make the consumer as informed as possible.

Considering all the fallout of late, the environment is quite a lot more informed than previously--which is a good thing. (The circumstances in which it's come about, however...) The testing templates get bigger and more consistently updated, image quality comparisons are more frequent, and the PR coming out of all camps is more apt to attract commentary outside of the forums, and even side articles, rather than just being mindlessly regurgitated. (Though some will no doubt contest that last part. )

Doesn't matter WHAT form something takes--those who want to "dick measure" against it will do so. Sadly you can't counteract that even with a huge gamut of tests (Ha! My card wins 18 our of 23 tests at 4xAA/8xAF at 1600x1200!), so you hardly do yourself a service by ceasing to care about certain things. The best picture IS the most filled-in one, and that includes all game tests, benchmarks, and the appropriate context they have--not to mention additional commentary to lace them all together.
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Old 11-12-03, 05:20 PM   #14
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Anyone else find it a little odd that some "general" hardware sites don't mention Futuremark's patch at all?

Nothing on Anandtech, nothing on HardOCP, a very small news link on Tom's.

/shrug

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Old 11-12-03, 05:31 PM   #15
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Indeed. I was kind of expecting more from [H] considering the "paradigm shifts" that have been going on there of late, though. I was thinking perhaps they were prepping an examination article, but that seems unlikely considering the general lambasting Kyle is doing in the forums. His opinions on FutureMark, at least, don't seem to have changed at all.
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Old 11-12-03, 05:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheTaz
Anyone else find it a little odd that some "general" hardware sites don't mention Futuremark's patch at all?

Nothing on Anandtech, nothing on HardOCP, a very small news link on Tom's.

/shrug

Taz
I was kind of expecting there to be something with regards to the affair at ExtremeTech, them being a part of the beta tester team for FutureMark and all. It seems rather odd that the story wasn't more heavily circulated, strange indeed. It truly is a substantial discovery and most undeniably noteworthy.
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Old 11-12-03, 06:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sickness
I was kind of expecting there to be something with regards to the affair at ExtremeTech, them being a part of the beta tester team for FutureMark and all. It seems rather odd that the story wasn't more heavily circulated, strange indeed. It truly is a substantial discovery and most undeniably noteworthy.
Well... I think these other sites are playing "politics".

Either they don't want to piss nVidia off, or they don't want to deal with flak from nVidia fans. I have to Applaud Mike C and company for posting the news, and keeping the discussion open in the forums.

Regards,

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Old 11-12-03, 06:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: Re: Nvidia 3DM03 talks "NOT FLAMES"

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Originally posted by StealthHawk
Debatable at best. Sorry to go off-topic, but Aquamark3 does not show any signs of application specfic optimization to me. Neither does Shadermark2, neither does Halo, and neither does Gunmetal.

And for those who missed it: Beyond3D's excellent 3dmark03 340 article.



The formula has not changed and has always been public.
Im sorry stealth but all They have dont is made found a way to get their application detection to not be detected.

I gurantee they are still doing Application detection and shader replacement (among other things) in every single example you have listed. Ill go a step further. Even in examples where some people claim there is no IQ difference there usually is. Sure you have to zoom or pay attention to detail to see it but its there. The fact that people that buy Nvidia products dont seem to care or make excuses for it or say iot does not matter does not change the reality of it. look at this example the second post down on this page.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...0&pagenumber=3

Yet the "reviewer" claimed to see no difference in these pics. Which is imo laughable. While you cant see the detail in motion is that a reason to condone it and claim it does not exsist? Take any of the above games and look at them closely.. What will the results be?
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Old 11-12-03, 06:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheTaz
Well... I think these other sites are playing "politics".

Either they don't want to piss nVidia off, or they don't want to deal with flak from nVidia fans. I have to Applaud Mike C and company for posting the news, and keeping the discussion open in the forums.

Regards,

Taz
Did nVnews publish anything on this on their frontpage? Last I checked yesterday they had a blurb buried in one of Muya's updates about Nordichardware trying out the patch.
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Old 11-12-03, 06:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Did nVnews publish anything on this on their frontpage? Last I checked yesterday they had a blurb buried in one of Muya's updates about Nordichardware trying out the patch.
Yeah... it's right under the PCI Express Video News Bit.

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Old 11-12-03, 06:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Did nVnews publish anything on this on their frontpage? Last I checked yesterday they had a blurb buried in one of Muya's updates about Nordichardware trying out the patch.
I really dont think it matters wether Nvnews makes a post about it on the front page or not. This is just a benchmark and most of the Nvidia fanbase still around simply does not care. So why waste time on it?

We have gotten to the point where people in general are deleting 3dmark03 from their harddrives instead of demanding Quality form Nvidia. The reason is.. theu know nothing is going to change.. again.. why waste time on it? If the owners of the hardware are happy with the results they are getting in the things that are important to them.. so be it.

The bad thing is that many, if not most people are flatly sticking their heads in the sand about the issue simply becuase they dont understand or see the difference because all they own is Nvidia hardware.

IT would really be interesting to see what the same group of people would say about ATi or another company if they had the same results.
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Old 11-12-03, 06:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheTaz
Well... I think these other sites are playing "politics".

Either they don't want to piss nVidia off, or they don't want to deal with flak from nVidia fans. I have to Applaud Mike C and company for posting the news, and keeping the discussion open in the forums.

Regards,

Taz
Ironically Nvidia fan sites have more integrity then Nvidia itself at this point. It is good to see at any rate.
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Old 11-12-03, 06:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Nvidia 3DM03 talks "NOT FLAMES"

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Originally posted by bkswaney

But I guess when it comes down to it I really don;t care as long as my IQ is top notch and my games run smooth.

The main game I play is UT2003. It runs sweet as sugar on my 5900u.
It's smoother than my 9800Pro was and the IQ is just wonderful.
I only hope UT2004 runs as good.

Let's please not get this thread closed to. It's nice to talk about these things but some had rather just call u names.
Mods please just delete those post and save my thread if u can.
Kind of odd that your results in UT2003 pretty much go against the grain for most reviews and even threads in this forum. Especially when looking at the results from a host of user made maps etc.. In fact i think i remember you yourself commenting on some of these issues when you had your 9800pro in this very forum..
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Old 11-13-03, 03:26 AM   #24
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Default Re: Re: Re: Nvidia 3DM03 talks "NOT FLAMES"

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Originally posted by Hellbinder
Im sorry stealth but all They have dont is made found a way to get their application detection to not be detected.

I gurantee they are still doing Application detection and shader replacement (among other things) in every single example you have listed. Ill go a step further. Even in examples where some people claim there is no IQ difference there usually is. Sure you have to zoom or pay attention to detail to see it but its there. The fact that people that buy Nvidia products dont seem to care or make excuses for it or say iot does not matter does not change the reality of it. look at this example the second post down on this page.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthre...0&pagenumber=3

Yet the "reviewer" claimed to see no difference in these pics. Which is imo laughable. While you cant see the detail in motion is that a reason to condone it and claim it does not exsist? Take any of the above games and look at them closely.. What will the results be?
Oh I absolutely agree that is a possibility. But there's really no way to prove it.

And of course the same thing can be said for ATI. So I think you're opening a can of worms that should stay closed, lest this turn into a witch hunt.
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