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Old 11-13-03, 03:36 AM   #25
cthellis
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Indeed not! We'd have newts crawling all over the place...
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Old 11-13-03, 04:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Re: Nvidia 3DM03 talks "NOT FLAMES"

Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
Kind of odd that your results in UT2003 pretty much go against the grain for most reviews and even threads in this forum. Especially when looking at the results from a host of user made maps etc.. In fact i think i remember you yourself commenting on some of these issues when you had your 9800pro in this very forum..

I had no issues on UT2003 with the 9800 or 5900.
I play 1024 with everything max in the CP and 4xAA and 8xAF.
Even under heavy fire it runs smooth. Now I cannot comment on
slower cpu PC's. I also run my card at 490/960 all the time.
You like me and a high end rig.

I agree NV is not best right now. Right along with every other tech head.
But where I had a slight shutter on a map or two with the 9800 it does not happen with the setup I have now.

Also to "my eyes" the IQ looks about the same on both. Tho the 9800 AA is a bit smoother.

I want NV to quit cheating in benchmarks. It's wrong.
Everyone knows the NV3x sucks pretty much. Without optimizing
it's a real dog. It seems there is nothing NV can do about it.

All we can do at this point is hope the NV40 does not suffer from the same down falls.

If they follow DX specs more this go around and put in the pipes it might be a winner.
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Old 11-13-03, 06:01 AM   #27
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It's good when you can go to an Nvidia or ATi fansite, read the forums, and get a open-minded point of view from almost every person's post.

It looks (to me) that the mass-amount of fanboy-ism is slowly going away (Because people are growing up, or simply getting smarter).

Either way, it makes the Rage3D & Nvnews forums a LOT more enjoyable to read. There were days when each site's forums were heavily biased.

It's almost like the whole 3DMark03 cheating fiasco has brought us all together.

Or something.



Anyway, these threads are a good read. Keep it up people.
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Old 11-13-03, 08:48 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimmyjames123
Not exactly. For one, since we generally don't have benchmarking results for these "less-played games", we do not know exactly how performance differs. Also, it can be argued that general compatibility and driver stability is just as important (if not more important) as raw performance, especially with some less visible older games.
I think you can likely call Tiger Woods 2004 one of those "lesser played games" by virtue of the fact it usually sells around 250-300,000 copies per version. Compared to UT2003 and other FPS games, Tiger PC is a pimple on an elephant's hiney.

I have made a post or two here and on other forums regarding the performance differences between a 9800 Pro and the 5900U in a DX9 title (also a TWIMTBP title). I am hoping MikeC will be able to share more with you all when/if he is able to benchmark TW2004 with his upcoming full review of the 5950U.
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Old 11-13-03, 09:12 AM   #29
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Default Re: Re: Re: Nvidia 3DM03 talks "NOT FLAMES"

Quote:
Originally posted by bkswaney

But where I had a slight shutter on a map or two with the 9800 it does not happen with the setup I have now.


Ever play DM-Compressed? Thats one of the few maps my 9800 Pro doesn't like. You know the smoke coming out of the ventilation thingies just above the lift? (You gotta crank up the "World detail" to highest)
When i walk/dodge through that smoke the FPS drops like a stone and i get some weird stuttering.

Do you notice that with your 5900? Maybe it's some weird bug in that map or my 9800 is allergic to smoke
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Old 11-13-03, 09:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BigBerthaEA
I think you can likely call Tiger Woods 2004 one of those "lesser played games" by virtue of the fact it usually sells around 250-300,000 copies per version. Compared to UT2003 and other FPS games, Tiger PC is a pimple on an elephant's hiney.

I have made a post or two here and on other forums regarding the performance differences between a 9800 Pro and the 5900U in a DX9 title (also a TWIMTBP title). I am hoping MikeC will be able to share more with you all when/if he is able to benchmark TW2004 with his upcoming full review of the 5950U.
erm BigB does TW2004 have a erm benchamrking facility or are u refering to FRAPS? I would be very intersted to know if EA does have some sort of benchmarking utility built-in? Tw2004 is pretty hard to benchmark and guage 3D performances maybe with golf being a very slow pace and monotonous games compared to FPS's and RTS etc? Dun get me wrong..me like tw2004


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Old 11-13-03, 09:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by MUYA
erm BigB does TW2004 have a erm benchamrking facility or are u refering to FRAPS? I would be very intersted to know if EA does have some sort of benchmarking utility built-in? Tw2004 is pretty hard to benchmark and guage 3D performances maybe with golf being a very slow pace and monotonous games compared to FPS's and RTS etc? Dun get me wrong..me like tw2004


MUYA
I assume there is a replay mode. perhaps that would work? I'll play with it next week--have to finish my El Gigante Project this weekend.
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Old 11-13-03, 10:20 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by MUYA
erm BigB does TW2004 have a erm benchamrking facility or are u refering to FRAPS? I would be very intersted to know if EA does have some sort of benchmarking utility built-in? Tw2004 is pretty hard to benchmark and guage 3D performances maybe with golf being a very slow pace and monotonous games compared to FPS's and RTS etc? Dun get me wrong..me like tw2004


MUYA
I dunno m8...

perhaps the course flyby's can be setup to be benched specially on the more graphically endowed courses (ie lots of trees and water)

if there is a feature I would love to know about it
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Old 11-13-03, 11:18 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder

While you cant see the detail in motion is that a reason to condone it and claim it does not exsist? Take any of the above games and look at them closely.. What will the results be? [/b]
HB if you have an issue with optimizing for the benchmark I can see it, but according to you, one cannot see it in motion which begs a few questions

1) If games have the same sort of optimization, and one cannot see it in motion then ATI/Nv should both do whatever it is, it will only allow more features to be shown in the game.

2) Why would anyone care if a game screenshot did not look identical if you could not tell in motion?

3) Whoever that was at r3d, you should tell them to include a reference image with the comparison, otherwise it is meaningless.
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Old 11-13-03, 12:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazar

if there is a feature I would love to know about it
Me too m8. at 1280 by 1024 @32 but with 4X Aa and 8X AF, framrates sometimes drops to teen levels in certain scenes! Anyway a flyby of the course would probably not be indicative of gameplay As Baron said maybe there is a way to replay the whole damned round on a course..of course that would take ages...get kettle on Saz for some chai!


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Old 11-13-03, 01:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by MUYA
erm BigB does TW2004 have a erm benchamrking facility or are u refering to FRAPS? I would be very intersted to know if EA does have some sort of benchmarking utility built-in? Tw2004 is pretty hard to benchmark and guage 3D performances maybe with golf being a very slow pace and monotonous games compared to FPS's and RTS etc? Dun get me wrong..me like tw2004


MUYA
FRAPS. TW2004 does not have a benchmarking utility, but it is not difficult to benchmark performance based on certain key points in each golf course. I would like to see a utility for benching TW2004 because the cameras are very dynamic and it is possible to get a pretty diverse group of scenes to render that can flat work a GPU into submission.

While I do not confuse TW with UT2003/QuakeIII/Halo, etc...I do not find it monotonous...but to each his own. Glad you enjoy the game!
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Old 11-13-03, 03:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by sxotty
HB if you have an issue with optimizing for the benchmark I can see it, but according to you, one cannot see it in motion which begs a few questions

1) If games have the same sort of optimization, and one cannot see it in motion then ATI/Nv should both do whatever it is, it will only allow more features to be shown in the game.

2) Why would anyone care if a game screenshot did not look identical if you could not tell in motion?

3) Whoever that was at r3d, you should tell them to include a reference image with the comparison, otherwise it is meaningless.
That pic was just one example.. btw.. There are others.

The point is that you Dont Optomize for a benchmark like 3dmark03 becuase its supposed to show the baseline performance capable without 6 months of Tweaks. For instance if you bought Max Payne 2 today you will be suffereing from performance issues. Tweaks to the Driver for performance 6 months from now dont do you any good at all.

This is why straight D3D optomization and Performance is the best policy and showing what that is in an accurate way is the best policy. Nvidia is not going to Target every single game out there for these kinds of specific tweaks. Likely Only the ones used for Benchmarks, or the top 10 games of the year etc. What about all the other games out there?
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