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Old 11-19-03, 08:27 AM   #49
John Reynolds
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Originally posted by jbirney
So your saying its ok to cheat in the biggest benchmark out there eh?

FM said that optimizations soley for 3dmark are not allowed and yet nV does this again? Pitty....
What was Nvidia's internal guidelines again? An optimization must accelerate more than just a benchmark? It must not contain a pre-computed state?
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Old 11-19-03, 08:32 AM   #50
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Originally posted by John Reynolds
What was Nvidia's internal guidelines again? An optimization must accelerate more than just a benchmark? It must not contain a pre-computed state?
I now get the feeling that they were external guidelines for our benefit - The internal guidelines are obviously very different... If they exist at all.
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Old 11-19-03, 08:47 AM   #51
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Originally posted by John Reynolds
What was Nvidia's internal guidelines again? An optimization must accelerate more than just a benchmark? It must not contain a pre-computed state?
You are SO darn picky!

(I'm just waiting for FM to put out a patch later today... )
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Old 11-19-03, 10:05 AM   #52
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Originally posted by digitalwanderer
You are SO darn picky!

(I'm just waiting for FM to put out a patch later today... )
Yeah, I know, I just like playing with semantics.
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Old 11-19-03, 10:10 AM   #53
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I hope you all will be ready to eat a big helping of crow if a new 3DM patch comes out and scores don't change. Not like that'll happen, but I just want you to be ready.
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Old 11-19-03, 10:12 AM   #54
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Originally posted by digitalwanderer
You are SO darn picky!

(I'm just waiting for FM to put out a patch later today... )
Would just reinforce the demise of the benchmark. Patch after patch after pact... I love it. Pretty soon, people are just going to get tired of patching 3DMark and it just floats away into software oblivion.

Hardware updates are always going to be justified. They make a product better. Software is a different story, it puts doubt in peoples minds. Just look at the Windows XP patches and what the public feels about there being so many.

Peace,


Last edited by Malfunction; 11-19-03 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 11-19-03, 10:29 AM   #55
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Originally posted by Malfunction
Would just reinforce the demise of the benchmark. Patch after patch after pact... I love it. Pretty soon, people are just going to get tired of patching 3DMark and it just floats away into software oblivion.

Hardware updates are always going to be justified. They make a product better. Software is a different story, it puts doubt in peoples minds. Just look at the Windows XP patches and what the public feels about their being so many.

Peace,

And of course the game developers patch their games after they're published, so we can be confident score increases are valid optimizations and not replaced shaders. Right? And if the IHVs do start pulling shenanigans in games that're used as popular benchmarks (like that would ever happen), the major hardware sites will quickly detect such cheating and report it to the hardware/gaming community. Right?

Did I also mention I have a plot of land from West Farthing, the Shire, that's up for sale?
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Old 11-19-03, 10:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
And of course the game developers patch their games after they're published, so we can be confident score increases are valid optimizations and not replaced shaders. Right? And if the IHVs do start pulling shenanigans in games that're used as popular benchmarks (like that would ever happen), the major hardware sites will quickly detect such cheating and report it to the hardware/gaming community. Right?

Did I also mention I have a plot of land from West Farthing, the Shire, that's up for sale?
What you left out was what the actual person who is playing the game feels. If the game is playing great and looks great, they don't see a problem. Only the guy beating on the architecture and how well it does on synthetic benchmarks is. The whole reason to buy such a videocard is to enjoy the experience while gaming, not benchmarking.

Peace,

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Old 11-19-03, 10:37 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
Yeah, I know, I just like playing with semantics.
So does nVidia apparently.

Quote:
Did I also mention I have a plot of land from West Farthing, the Shire, that's up for sale? [/b]
Really? Is it cheap? I've always wanted to get a summer home in the Shire in case I ever need to get away and frolic for a while.




(BTW-How come no one here has told me to either stop micro-examining everything nVidia does and to get a life/hobby/laid or go enjoy games or something yet? )

EDITED BITS: Malfunction-Could you shorten your sig a bit? Mine is about the max vertical space allowed and yours is easily twice that....thanks.
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Old 11-19-03, 10:41 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
(BTW-How come no one here has told me to either stop micro-examining everything nVidia does and to get a life/hobby/laid or go enjoy games or something yet? )
Would it change anything... no.

Quote:

EDITED BITS: Malfunction-Could you shorten your sig a bit? Mine is about the max vertical space allowed and yours is easily twice that....thanks.
No one else has a problem with it, if they did... they would have a prob with the person I got the idea from as well.

Thanks! Peace,

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Old 11-19-03, 10:49 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer


(BTW-How come no one here has told me to either stop micro-examining everything nVidia does and to get a life/hobby/laid or go enjoy games or something yet? )

I'm surprised you're still here to be honest
You must be a smooth talker when replying to MikeC's "warning PM's" huh?

j/k
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Old 11-19-03, 10:57 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Malfunction
What you left out was what the actual person who is playing the game feels. If the game is playing great and looks great, they don't see a problem. Only the guy beating on the architecture and how well it does on synthetic benchmarks is. The whole reason to buy such a videocard is to enjoy the experience while gaming, not benchmarking.

Peace,

No, I left nothing out. And this is not about one IHV or another. I wrote popular games, and by that I meant that if an IHV cheats the popular ones used as benchmarks then those benchmarks are worthless, because such "optimizations" and their performance increases are not carried over to the other games that constitute 90%+ of the titles published each year because these games never receive the loving care of a software engineer's attention.

I'm all about games and play from just about every genre. But if you think publishers and/or developers care about protecting their code so that they're used fairly as benchmarks, you're barking up a non-existant tree.
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