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Old 11-15-03, 04:09 PM   #13
bkswaney
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He told me he was using the 52.16's.
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Old 11-15-03, 05:04 PM   #14
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So, are you guys saying it's just the Club 3D card that keeps it's score with the 340 patch or it's all 5700 Ultras? If it's just the Club 3D card then I would say there is a bug in 3DMark03 that is failing to detect the card/driver and not turning off the cheats.
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Old 11-15-03, 05:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
So, are you guys saying it's just the Club 3D card that keeps it's score with the 340 patch or it's all 5700 Ultras? If it's just the Club 3D card then I would say there is a bug in 3DMark03 that is failing to detect the card/driver and not turning off the cheats.
no, we're saying that Fudo screwed up and it doesn't actually keep its score. mine is 600 points lower than Fudo's score, and all 5700Ultras are created equal (well, chip wise anyway, maybe not in terms of cooling).
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Old 11-15-03, 05:42 PM   #16
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I'm just saying perhaps the Club 3D card uses a different vendor id in their bios and 3DMark03 is just not detecting that (assuming Futuremark is detecting the id and turning off these cheats).
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Old 11-15-03, 05:56 PM   #17
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Chris you should have been paying more attention what you have suggested makes absolutely no sense, however since it seems clear it was all a mistake it is irrelevant

(as to why it makes no sense, Futuremark was not changed to detect nvidia cards and screw them, it was changed so that Nvidia cards (the driver) could not detect it, hopefully that makes sense to you)
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Old 11-15-03, 06:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by sxotty
Chris you should have been paying more attention what you have suggested makes absolutely no sense, however since it seems clear it was all a mistake it is irrelevant

(as to why it makes no sense, Futuremark was not changed to detect nvidia cards and screw them, it was changed so that Nvidia cards (the driver) could not detect it, hopefully that makes sense to you)
Yeah, and just how do you know this? I didn't know you were part of the development of Futuremark and had the inside scoop on what methods they are using.

If you would bother to click on the "Details" button in 3DMark03, you would know that they are indeed detecting the vendor id of the graphics card you are using. It is a common practice to use this id in certain programs. I should know as I have written several programs that does just that.

As for your confirmation of this, show me the link where it was proven that this is in fact not the case.
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Old 11-15-03, 06:29 PM   #19
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are device IDs vendor specific if they're following the reference design?
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Old 11-15-03, 06:42 PM   #20
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FM already announced they "turned off the cheats" so to say by reordering (not mathmatically altering) the shaders and renaming registers so there could be no shortcuts taken with shader detecting and knowing what would come next before the fact. Vendor ID has nothing to do with it, and is pretty much exactly against what they want. (They don't want to know what a card is, and they don't want a card to know what IT is, they just want the operations run to their specifications the best way the card can.)
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Old 11-15-03, 06:54 PM   #21
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I'm not saying this is what they are doing. I'm only suggesting the possibility that they are using this as part of whatever process they are using to detect these drivers. I don't even know what Club 3D's vendor id is. The way the story if written suggests that Club 3D cards are not losing points with the 340 patch. Maybe the guy screwed up...maybe not. Maybe it is something Futuremark did that is causing the cheats not to be blocked? Maybe, just maybe, Futuremark really does have some kind of vendetta against nVidia? Futuremark is not going to tell us what they are doing because they don't want to make it easier to defeat their protection mechanisms. They can't just detect the driver since that can be easily hacked to reflect another driver version. I'm just trying to keep an open mind here.
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Old 11-15-03, 07:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by cthellis
FM already announced they "turned off the cheats" so to say by reordering (not mathmatically altering) the shaders and renaming registers so there could be no shortcuts taken with shader detecting and knowing what would come next before the fact. Vendor ID has nothing to do with it, and is pretty much exactly against what they want. (They don't want to know what a card is, and they don't want a card to know what IT is, they just want the operations run to their specifications the best way the card can.)
That was the method they announced they used the first time they patched 3DMark03. The very next drivers from nVidia released just a few days later just changed the order right back. It was not very wise for Futuremark to tell everyone exactly what they did as that made it much easier re-enable the cheats.
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Old 11-15-03, 07:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisW
That was the method they announced they used the first time they patched 3DMark03. The very next drivers from nVidia released just a few days later just changed the order right back. It was not very wise for Futuremark to tell everyone exactly what they did as that made it much easier re-enable the cheats.
um... you're missing the point. there's no active cheat protection. the whole point is to disable the cheats by changing the CRC of the .exe file, defeating the driver's ability to detect the application and then preventing shader detection and ultimately, replacement.
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Old 11-15-03, 07:27 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
DaveB said Fudo screwed up.
The Inquirer making mistakes? Say it ain't so
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