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Old 11-22-03, 09:27 PM   #109
Edge
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What? NO skills? But...but I thought in a preview a while ago they talked about the "new" skill system?!? Bah, why would they remove a feature AFTER they've implimented it? And for that matter, why did they talk about *changing* the skill system when they simply removed it? Arg, that sucks. I really hope someone makes a mod for the game that puts skills back in (and just give you a set amount of skill points at the end of each mission or something).
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Old 11-23-03, 12:19 AM   #110
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I just finished playing DeusEx2 Demo and I loved it.

The Good:
o It has the atmosphere of the original game.
o I like the few input controls, not many buttons/keys.
o I like big text and not too much dialog. Enough to tell the story, but not too much to read and get info overload.
o The environment is quite interactive as far as objects go and the physics are more featured than before.
o The lock displays are good, eg. how strong and what to use.
o The game is streamlined and simplified but doesn't really detract from the game that I've noticed. I think that the considerations made for video game consoles have helped, not hindered, as they have done for KOTOR also.

The Bad:
o There might be few controls, but I miss the short cuts (which I'm sure are there somewhere) like dismissing the current weapon and Quick Save.
o The physics might be more featured, but I still picked up a brick and accidently threw it through a wall where it landed on the other side. Probably shouldn't have been scabbing in the bin (snooping through the dumpster for the Americans) anyway. If you try to block someones path with an object, they just push it along, but may comment about it.
o The weapon in hand looks pretty wimpy. Maybe the big guns will look better.

The What?:
o People are a bit bullet proof. I experimented by shooting a girl in the head repeatedly and she didn't take much notice.
o How long did I have to use the electric prod before my victim went unconsious? Trying to take the non-lethal, brain over brawn approach requires much patience.

The Ugly:
o When sneaking around the pad to hear the conversation (which is always available) the game repeatedly crashed to desktop (with no error, just instant exit).
o The game runs very slow at any resolution above 640x480. Detail options have little effect for me, the screen res and disabling vsync seemed to be the only things that mattered.
o The bloom (glow) effect makes the screen look blury as it obviosly involves a render to texture and looks blury enough to give me a mild head ache. I think I'd rather turn it off, and turn on anti aliasing, which didn't appear to slow the game down.
o The textures all look low res and diminish the bump effect, but I'm sure this was done to keep the download small and the full game will use full size textures.
o Character animations sometimes look jerky as if there is a 'battle within' until the final motion breaks forth.
o The keyboard (and some other) settings get lost no matter what I tried, including editing the default config file.

The unknown:
o I havn't yet tried my super hero powers (or what ever they're called). Will have to try the game again and experiment.
o I didn't do much violence, so I will have to try solving problems with the gun, and also use up the lock picks and items I've collected.

Overall I'm looking forward to buying this game soon.

Edit: I havn't read through many of the previous posts, but I'm sure some people will be compaining about how poor the game performs on their system thats always run games well before. Well, here's my comment for them: This is what to expect of the next generation of games. Over the last couple of years, we've become used to running games at very high resolutions and enabling things like FSAA because the games run fast. Now, with per pixel lighting effects, the cost per pixel has risen dramaticly. With stencil shadows, the fill rate has gone up perhaps 3x (or higher with even more realistic lighting). Don't expect to run new games the same way as old ones anymore.

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Old 11-23-03, 02:12 AM   #111
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yea the poor performance is understandable if the graphics look half decent.. but they suck. imo. low res textures, god awful characters... etc. i'll be the first to admit, i love it when games start to tax my system... but they need to have a reason to do so, this game has none.

i mean come on, the doom3 alpha ran better than this... and looked 200 million times more advanced.

its a console port, and a poor one at that.... its not a next generation game, its a console port. forced over to the pc, wonder why you get poor fps at anything over 640x480?? console port. it was designed to run at that res on television screens, its just not made for the pc, it suffers the same exact problems as halo.
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Old 11-23-03, 02:22 AM   #112
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also.. as quoted from nutty on halo:

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I think the main issue is fillrate. The game was developed for Xbox which runs at 640x480. And even then it only does 30, sometimes lower.

If you run at 1280x960, you're doing 4 times the fillrate! I think its because pretty much everything in the game is bump-mapped and environment mapped. Even UT2k3 doesn't do an awful lot on most surfaces.
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Old 11-23-03, 02:45 AM   #113
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man...


this thing sucks...


like bad.

i can't believe they called this deus ex 2. this game has nothing to do with the first deus ex. everything that made that a great game they took out and everything that makes games annoying and crappy they put in.
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Old 11-23-03, 03:11 AM   #114
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Word has it that low-res textures were used in order to keep the demo as "light" (yeah right ) as possible. They actually look worse at some places in comparison to Deus Ex 1, so that probably is the case. No need to worry about that. Regarding headshots (a problem in that demo), a developer said they will be possible to happen in the final game depending on the weapon (it's still not normal but...). It seems they messed up the values in the demo and will be fixing it. Edge, i partly agree with you on what you said about ISA simplifying the game though those huge fonts in the demo are perfect for a purely 640x480 resolution. And we all know what TV's res is and what you can plug in it don't we?

I think we've been playing with words here but what the devs did was simplify the game (having in mind its console version) and presented that to the PC community as a positive thing. Same happened in the PS2 version and it wasn't better really. The most hilarious thing though is when some dudes say "maybe the demo is not a representation of the final product". Thats true, but i thought a demo is the abreviation of demonstration. Why the hell have it out if it doesn't show what the game will be. Oh well, i hope ISA doesn't **** up Thief III otherwise, i'm moving to Austin TX *******it
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Old 11-23-03, 04:23 AM   #115
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Well from the Demo i have to agree it seems Half good of what the DX 1 was

But before making noise about how much it "sucks" etc first lets see the OFFICIAL RELEASE at December 5

There is no meaning of saying these game "BAD" from just playing a Demo...as i read from some above posts...

I can not agree with the ppl that say THAT GAME SUCKS from just playing a demo of it...I have fears after playing the demo that these game will be worse than Unreal2 but i will make my final judgement from the Final release and not from a demo...
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Old 11-23-03, 04:45 AM   #116
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Well, font sizes are obviously very console oriented, but if they honestly don't make different font sizes for different resolutions then that's just lazy development (I remember how some older games had UIs so small in high-res that they were totally unusable). I've seen lots of console-to-PC ports (not even games developed at the same time for both consoles) that have perfect font sizing and GUIs, Soul Reaver 2 and GTA3 come to mind. I honestly don't think the game's console "origin" (keeping in mind that the game was developed for both platforms simultaniously) has anything to do with gameplay comprimises. There weren't any changes to Morrowind's gameplay when it was under development for both platforms, and there's been literally hundreds of console games that use a more advanced system for stuff then Deus Ex: IW. If they honestly dumbed-down the game in order to fit it onto a console, then they had no desire to add any of those features to the game in the first place. I do think the "they broke it because it was made for console first" arguement has been used a bit to often lately. Bad development is bad development, and it doesn't matter if it's a port or not, because I've seen plenty of console ports turn out better then games developed exclusivly for the PC. They talked about making the game more simplistic before the Xbox was even released, and there was no talk of a PS2 version, so I'm pretty sure they simply did it because they thought it's what people wanted (HA!). I mean, some of the early things, like getting rid of the swimming skill and merging it with aqualung, and getting rid of the environmental training skill, sounded fine. But for some reason, they simply decided to get rid of the skill system all-togeather, and made the gameplay more focused on augmentations.

I mean, look at the HUD in DX:IW (note that I've only seen pictures and movies of how it works so far). I honestly don't think that hud works good on PC OR Console. Rather then making a different hud for each platform, or better yet, a hud that works for BOTH platforms better (it certainly doesn't look easilly navigatable on a pad). I've seen some true interfaces from hell (if I ever see the HUD system from Conquest Earth again I think I'll kill myself), and I've seen some that work suprisingly well for all platforms. But why in the hell is the inventory system so much worse now? I mean really, isn't the "every item takes up the same amount of space" system what everyone complained about in Resident Evil? At the VERY least, they could've just made each item take up a set amount of slots and get rid of the need to organise it (not like that would make it any more difficult on a console controller), but for some reason they simply decided to simplify it even beyond THAT. I think they just had a "simplification elf" decide on their gameplay mechanics.

However, one thing is clear: the demo (and possibly the full game) is very sloppilly done. Apperently when they were "reducing the texture sizes" for the demo, they forgot to edit the conversation text file. There's a text document in the demo directory that contains ALL the dialog between every character in the game, right up to the end! You can follow the story like a book, because they were apperently to lazy to edit or remove the file for the demo version. It's Fallout Tactics all over again, except to a wider scale.
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Old 11-23-03, 04:55 AM   #117
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This game really has been dumbed down for consoles, there is no way in hell a system like in the original would work on a console. And that ammo inventory and aug system is what made it so damn good to use.
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Old 11-23-03, 08:50 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edge
However, one thing is clear: the demo (and possibly the full game) is very sloppilly done. Apperently when they were "reducing the texture sizes" for the demo, they forgot to edit the conversation text file. There's a text document in the demo directory that contains ALL the dialog between every character in the game, right up to the end! You can follow the story like a book, because they were apperently to lazy to edit or remove the file for the demo version. It's Fallout Tactics all over again, except to a wider scale.
Yes, i read that already. Apparently Viktoria from Thief comes over to IW What really made me fly off the handle was no leaning option (though i've seen it in an .ini file so i'm sure it will be in the final game) and not assigning a dedicated key for a weapon. Instead, it seems you assign a key to a position in your belt, which means any weapon could go anywhere. Confusing. Does that make it more immersive? Does no leaning add to the stealthier gameplay? Also, there wasn't a light gem. Like i've said in the past, it looks just another game at the moment, not worthy of the name it carries. Still though its amazing how many gaming sites have been kissing its ass. I only saw one that based on the demo, was wondering if that was the brilliant game we've been promised.

I loved the fact that everyone was licking Kieron for his interview with WS (who in turn was licking Warren) and everyone said "nice one mate" or "great questions man" and only one or two in the forum wondered why didn't anybody ask on what machine was he testing the game (for a couple of hours as he said), what its performance was like etc. Now everyone is like "the demo is choppy, i need to upgrade, why didn't anyone tell me about it?" Ah well, i will still import it just to see what they did to it but sth tells me we should be getting a huge patch soon after the release. Now i'm really worried about TIII
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Old 11-23-03, 09:00 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
its a console port, and a poor one at that.... its not a next generation game, its a console port. forced over to the pc, wonder why you get poor fps at anything over 640x480?? console port. it was designed to run at that res on television screens, its just not made for the pc, it suffers the same exact problems as halo.
Yeah, but at least Halo can run decently in 1Kx768 if you keep specular off... But 640x480? That's just plain disgusting.
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Old 11-23-03, 09:21 AM   #120
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Personally I like it. Frame-rate hasn't been a problem for me. I've just tried it out with fraps, and that showed that I was getting mid teens to high 20's most of the time, though it did go significantly higher at times. That's on an XP2000 with 512mb 2100, and a Ti4600. I only had 2x AA, but I'll give AF I go as well later. Bloom was off. I found it perfectly playable. Given that it was such a dark level, I think it's early to be drawing a lot of conclusions about the graphics. Also, screenshots have been available for ages. Why are the graphics suddenly a problem now?

I kind of liked the interface, especially the belt. I found the older one too fiddly for a game of this nature. Small inventories are a bit more realistic too. In Deus Ex 1 I could walk around with a pistol, stealth pistol, assault shotgun, assault rifle, crossbow, sniper rifle, medkits, multitools, lockpicks, and a few other bits and pieces.

Jaime: Where's JC?

Paul: He'll be here tomorrow.

Jaime: Why so long? I thought he was staying at your place?

Paul: He is, but with all the weapons he's hauling around he has to crawl everywhere.

I do miss the skills system, but I'm sure I'll enjoy the game regardless. It's on the yule/christmas list, so maybe I'll be lucky.

Oh, and for those who thought hacking was too easy, the demo gives you the level 3 hacking biomod, so it would be. What it would be like without or at level 1 say, we don't know yet.

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