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Old 11-26-03, 04:53 AM   #1
Nemesis77
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Exclamation Freedesktop.org Xserver (please read!)

I searched the forums, but couldn't find any threads about this subject.

As you may or may not know, Freedesktop.org is working on a competitor to Xfree. Their project is known as Xserver.

What is Xservers claim to fame you ask? Well, it fixes just about ALL the problems we have with Xfree! The guy behind Xserver is no other than Keith Packard (the guy befind Fontconfig and RENDER-extension). What Xserver has is (among others):

- Translucent windows
- Windows Shadows
- Smooth Window-movement/resizing
- Low resource-consumption
- Advanced GFX-effects.

It is possible to have similar effects in Xserver as you have in, say Mac OS X. Seriously, this thing kicks ass!

Now, the performance is not there yet. Primary reason being that there are very little drivers. Many people use standard VESA-drivers with NVIDIA-cards and they get acceptable performance when compared to Xfree with native NVIDIA-drivers. That alone should tell you what is possible with this new X-implementation. Generic VESA-drives under Xserver can compate with accelerated NVIDIA-drivers under Xfree. Just think what it would be like if we had accelerated Xserver-drivers!

Many of us have complained about shortcoming in Xfree! Many have wished that there was a viable alternative to Xfree. Well, it seems that our wishes have come true! This is our chance to have kick-ass GFX in Linux! But we need to support this project! We need users, we need patches and we need drivers! So please, give it a shot (A word of warning, this is still Alpha-software, so there are bound to be bugs and rough edges).

NVIDIA, if you are listening: how about giving the Xserver-guys a hand? Accelerated drivers would be awesome !

Some links:

Thread about Xserver in Gentoo Linux forums

Screenshots!

People: this is a call to arms!
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Old 11-26-03, 08:45 AM   #2
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I agree, just installed it and this new xserver seems the right way to spice up the possibilities of X, I must note however that the vesa or fbdev drivers are not nearly as fast for 2d as the nvidia ones (that why I want nvidia drivers who work with this new xserver :P )

so, go nvidia, gimme some drivers
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Old 11-26-03, 08:51 AM   #3
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wow

i am sick of configuring hell every time i upgrade or install a new distro

just hoping they come up with something really cool..coz the people behind XFree need a kick in ass
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Old 11-26-03, 09:13 AM   #4
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and i seriously hope that it guns opengl games better than thier windozie version with even better 2d perofrmance or i will kill myself
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Old 11-26-03, 06:03 PM   #5
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Mm, I was mistaken, the Xfbdev performance on my latop is poor, but is lightening fast on my desktop system (really just as fast as 2d accel with the binary nvidia drivers)

too bad its still unstable and lacking nvidia's (opengl/twinview) support

I dont think this will get you more fps with opengl games (if it is supported by nvidia), because we probably already get max fps (mine are higher in linux than windows for good ports)
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Old 11-27-03, 02:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dirty
and i seriously hope that it guns opengl games better than thier windozie version with even better 2d perofrmance or i will kill myself
Xfree (or Xserver for that matter) has nothing to do with your 3D-performance. When you run a 3D-game, it uses DRI, which completely bypasses X and talks with the 3D-accelerator directly.
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Old 11-27-03, 08:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis77
Xfree (or Xserver for that matter) has nothing to do with your 3D-performance. When you run a 3D-game, it uses DRI, which completely bypasses X and talks with the 3D-accelerator directly.
While this may be true for performance, note that the games/apps will still require an X server. DRI has othing to do with input, for example, which most apps usually need. Also, all existing commercial games use X, so its impossible to run them anywhere without X. (Quake running on directfb, for example, requires the X server running on top of it.)

Also, the DRI itself cannot be used directly by games. It needs a server inbetween at least to set things up (managing security permissions, etc.)
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Old 11-27-03, 10:51 PM   #8
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I believe that this will be the spark that will end XFree. If distros do support it, which I have no doubt that they will, nVidia will most likely support it aswell.
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Old 11-27-03, 11:12 PM   #9
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Heh. I posted pretty much this exact same message on Nov. 11 (here - http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=20939 ) and I didn't get any response.

I'm glad to see people interested in it.

On my systems, it's fast and stable enough to be useable, but that's about all - it's not quite mature enough yet for daily use. I'm very impressed, though - I hope that Keith continues to move as fast as he has been lately.
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Old 11-27-03, 11:23 PM   #10
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Note that even the XServer developers don't expect the server to even be *ready* for use for at least a year, much less be mainstream.

Were NVIDIA to write drivers for it now, they'd spend a *lot* of time updating and modifying them as the internal structure changes.

Heck, XServer isn't even capable of loading modules yet (iirc). It just isn't at all time to start hacking on commercial drivers, at least not if they have to pay someone to maintain them...
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Old 11-28-03, 04:13 AM   #11
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Indeed. NVIDIA would be fools to devote any manpower to this server until it's a few revisions behind 1.0 and has a stable driver API/ABI. Until then, it's probably a hands-off policy.
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Old 11-30-03, 02:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheOneKEA
Indeed. NVIDIA would be fools to devote any manpower to this server until it's a few revisions behind 1.0 and has a stable driver API/ABI. Until then, it's probably a hands-off policy.
Maybe, but they would be equally fool if they chose not to talk to the Xserver-developers at all. Since the implementation is still a work in progress, they could have some input when it comes to it's design and such. And no-one is expecting a kind of support Xfree gets at the moment. Accelerated drivers that work would be enough.
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