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View Poll Results: Do you think gaming consoles will take over PC gaming in the future?
Yes 16 27.12%
No 43 72.88%
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Old 12-04-03, 02:53 AM   #49
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
But back then, you were limited with what you could do with the hardware. Today, you aren't quite soo limited, if that makes sense.
Also, back then, if someone released R-type, then someone would release Gradius 1,2,3, then Darius, then clones of them all. But more importantly, all superb, even though they were all horizontal shooters. The same can be said for vertical shooters like 194x.
There was a lot of rubbish, but games then were fun to play.
Yes, for you and me. I can only speak for myself, but I grew up on games like that. I have a nostalgic attachment as seemingly all/most humans do. I am sure that gamers growing up with these new style games probably feel the same way about their games though, although I have no evidence either way.

It seems to me that you're just expecting too much out of the new consoles. Which is something fair to expect. I didn't care much for 3rd person 3d games on N64. I thought Mario64 was cool because it was innovative and new. I didn't think it was actually that fun though compared to older Mario games. So naturally I didn't care much for all the clones of Mario64. But lots of other people loved Mario64, and loved the clones too. And I think the people who like the new style games and their clones outnumbers the people who dislike them(people keep buying the games).

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Like I said above, even though there were many of said games, they were damn good games that were playable.
See above, while you may think that the new games are unplayable there are many who find them perfectly playable. I happen to agree with you, I found older style 8bit/16bit games extremely playable. While I found a lot of N64/GC games to be "different" and not as playable.

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Now that I can agree with. And that could be part of my point. Many games today, especially on console, don't have the attention span of those classics. Many are easy to finish, often in a matter of hours. Not much entertainment for your 40, when you could hire a couple of dvd's, for a lot less, and get just as much enjoyment, if not more.
Most old games aren't that hard to finish either though. They usually take a few hours. I actually do find newer games to be easier, because in old games enemies seemed to cheat a lot(being able to shoot through walls, infinitely respawning if you moved off screen, etc). Even then, all old games could be beaten easily if you saw the enemy movement/firing patterns. It was all about timing.


Basically I'm just trying to say that we are all entitled to our opinions. You just can't say things in absolutes like "games today suck" and such because while it may be true for you it certainly isn't true for everyone. If games were really getting worse then why is the industry so much bigger today? You'd think people would find something better to do if it were true...although I myself just let my friends buy the consoles/games now
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Old 12-04-03, 06:17 AM   #50
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Basically I'm just trying to say that we are all entitled to our opinions. You just can't say things in absolutes like "games today suck" and such because while it may be true for you it certainly isn't true for everyone. You'd think people would find something better to do if it were true...although I myself just let my friends buy the consoles/games now
You can't also just say that PC's are going to die out, thats what the discussion is for.
I'm merely pointing out that, if this ever happens, the creativity might die along with it.
I don't want that, I don't also want to be forced to buy games I complete in a matter of hours.
I don't want to be forced to buy games that cost almost double that of PC games.
None of the above may happen, chances it won't. But if it ever does, and I want to continue my gaming craves, what else do I do.

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If games were really getting worse then why is the industry so much bigger today?
I'd personally say that, it's because games are much easier to play. Technology is affordable today, and you get all that eye candy without paying a fortune.
I remember paying 300 for a Megadrive (Sega Genesis), and the same for a SNES.
Also, the leap from 8bit consoles to 16bit consoles, wasn't all that huge.
Now the leap from 16bit to 32bit consoles, was huge. Compare a SNES to a Playstation, or a Megadrive to an N64.
It was then "Cool" to game, thanks to the PSX. Sony got gaming into sports, extreme sports, and clubs. No longer was it a geeky thing, gaming came to the masses. THATS why the industry is bigger. Although, I don't think 'Quality' was the success, more 'Quantity'.

Lastly, I can't actually remember saying all games suck ?
I'm just trying to make a point for the PC, as it IS a discussion forum.
I also own a good 25 consoles, old and new. So I'm not against consoles, I just have a more open mind.
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Old 12-04-03, 07:17 AM   #51
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics

But take out all the tripe out of that console list, and I'll bet you you are left with a lot less than you think. There really weren't that many good console releases this year. Certainly not enough to make you buy that particular console. Although, like I said, Project Gotham 2, is pretty good.
You can take out all the crap from the pc list and there would be nothing. See i can say the same thing. Just because you find it crap, doesn't mean other people do.

About gta vc(from gamespot)
"The PlayStation 2 versions looked fantastic, given the relatively underpowered PS2 hardware, and the ports that appeared on the PC did a nice job of cleaning up and improving upon the original PS2 games. But the Xbox versions of the games go one step further than that. You'll immediately notice reflections coming off the cars, and the lighting in general is better. The texture quality and character models have been improved. The draw distance seems a little further out. And the frame rate remains pretty stable throughout. The games take advantage of the Xbox's audio prowess by playing in Dolby Digital 5.1 sound and offering support for the custom soundtrack feature. The games' video will stretch to the 16:9 aspect ratio and will also play in 480p. The control in both games remains largely unchanged, using the same auto-lock-on feature found in the PlayStation 2 version rather than going with the standard third-person shooter setup found on the PC. The driving control has been revamped to use the Xbox's analog triggers, which works well. Overall, GTAIII and Vice City are the same games they were when they came out on other platforms--but the Xbox versions simply look and sound better while still playing just as well now as they did back when they were first released, and if you're itching to play either game again, do yourself a favor and play it on the Xbox this time through."

Either way you slice it, consoles will be here to stay, and the more powerfull they get the more people will buy them especially if they are multifuntion devices. For a gaming machine, the pc is far too expensive.
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Old 12-04-03, 09:27 AM   #52
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Either way you slice it, consoles will be here to stay, and the more powerfull they get the more people will buy them especially if they are multifuntion devices. For a gaming machine, the pc is far too expensive.
Either way YOU slice it, the PC isn't going anywhere. And you'd be a little naive to think that.
When all of the current crop of consoles are dead and buried, the PC will still going strong, if not stronger.
PCI express is on the horizon, Longhorn and DX Next or DX 10, is the next big thing. Do you think this would happen if there wasn't a PC market ?

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You can take out all the crap from the pc list and there would be nothing. See i can say the same thing. Just because you find it crap, doesn't mean other people do.
And you'll be quite happy buying Fifa 2005/6/7/8/9, Tekken 15, Mario Fishing, Mario Bowling, Mario does the dishes, Another Dumb 3d platformer which you collect stars, reach end, kill boss.

Games like Deus Ex2, prove that games are dumbed down catering to the "Lowest Common Denominator" the console market, unfortunately looking at money before gameplay.

GTA for Xbox, proves the same thing

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The control in both games remains largely unchanged, using the same auto-lock-on feature found in the PlayStation 2
Can it get any easier ? Next they'll be saying that you won't even have to press the button, the computer will shoot for you
And what about the poor aliasing in the Xbox GTA ? The low resolution ? I'd sooner bump up to 1280x960, with 4xAA 8xAF. than have some shiny cars.

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Just because you find it crap, doesn't mean other people do.
No, I just see a wider picture here, something you obviously don't. I don't buy games for the "Wooo, look at that 3D", but sod the gameplay.
I hate the money men, the suits, of the console market. They'd rather make shed loads of money than put out anything worthy of your cash. If they could get a game out for Xmas with bugs, then they'd do it. PC is the sae, but you can patch a PC game.

I don't hate all console games, I like the exceptions.
The ICO's, The REZ'es, Project Gotham's, Ikuruga's, Super Monkey Ball Games, Some of that Nintendo magic like the Zelda's, and their NES/SNES/N64 days.
What I hate are the Metal Gear Solids, the 10 minute intro crap with cheesy acted dialogue that you can't skip, that interrupts you every 5 mins. Games that tell YOU how to play, because some dumb kid can't quite understand the concept of LEFT RIGHT. UP DOWN.

I'm sorry to have rant, I'm not normally like this. And I appologise if I offended anyone. But I do love the PC, it's my life, my livelyhood, and my gaming pleasures.
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Old 12-04-03, 09:42 AM   #53
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics

And you'll be quite happy buying Fifa 2005/6/7/8/9, Tekken 15, Mario Fishing, Mario Bowling, Mario does the dishes, Another Dumb 3d platformer which you collect stars, reach end, kill boss.
Hehe, you forgot the EA sports titles: NBA 2001, NBA 2002, NBA 2003, NFL 2001, NFL 2002, NFL 2003, NHL 2001, NHL 2002, NHL 2003, NASCAR 2001, NASCAR 2002, NASCAR 2003... oh hurray! they same series of games done over and over again every year, with the same engine running on the same unchanged hardware. Thats the cutting edge of gaming is it?
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Old 12-04-03, 10:18 AM   #54
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
Longhorn and DX Next or DX 10, is the next big thing.
Not until 2006 and by that time we'll have the Xbox 2 and PS3.

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And you'll be quite happy buying Fifa 2005/6/7/8/9, Tekken 15, Mario Fishing, Mario Bowling, Mario does the dishes, Another Dumb 3d platformer which you collect stars, reach end, kill boss.
This is more of a Nintendo problem than anything else. And I do agree with you on that. This is why I much prefer the Xbox because it has titles that aren't run-of-the-mill. Stuff like Fusion Frenzy, Shenmue II, Ninja Gaiden and DOAX ( ) are games that don't really follow the standard console gaming formula that Nintendo seems to have perfected.

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They'd rather make shed loads of money than put out anything worthy of your cash. If they could get a game out for Xmas with bugs, then they'd do it. PC is the sae, but you can patch a PC game.
You can patch a PC game, but it seems like that is happening with far less frequency nowadays. Where's a patch for GTA3 that can give me at least somewhat better performance with the draw distance turned up higher than 50%? Not only are publishers putting out software that should be considered beta, they don't seem to be particularly interested in updating it.

It seems that developers who genuinely care about the PC are becoming the exception rather than the rule, and that's sad.
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Old 12-04-03, 10:44 AM   #55
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics

I don't hate all console games, I like the exceptions.
The ICO's, The REZ'es, Project Gotham's, Ikuruga's, Super Monkey Ball Games, Some of that Nintendo magic like the Zelda's, and their NES/SNES/N64 days.
What I hate are the Metal Gear Solids, the 10 minute intro crap with cheesy acted dialogue that you can't skip, that interrupts you every 5 mins. Games that tell YOU how to play, because some dumb kid can't quite understand the concept of LEFT RIGHT. UP DOWN.

There are games that try and do what Metal Gear Solid has done very successfully, and fail miserably. The MGS games are awesome. While their cut scenes are long and complicated, they are of the highest quality (MGS2 still looks good) all around. MGS3 looks like it's going to kick all kinds of flange.

I do agree that there are lots of games that try this and fail, but I don't think the MGS series is at fault. There is a lot of crap on the consoles that are churned out for kids' parents to run out and purchase. And that's a shame. But both PC and consoles suffer from this.
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Old 12-04-03, 10:46 AM   #56
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
Either way YOU slice it, the PC isn't going anywhere. And you'd be a little naive to think that.
When all of the current crop of consoles are dead and buried, the PC will still going strong, if not stronger.
PCI express is on the horizon, Longhorn and DX Next or DX 10, is the next big thing. Do you think this would happen if there wasn't a PC market ?



And you'll be quite happy buying Fifa 2005/6/7/8/9, Tekken 15, Mario Fishing, Mario Bowling, Mario does the dishes, Another Dumb 3d platformer which you collect stars, reach end, kill boss.

Games like Deus Ex2, prove that games are dumbed down catering to the "Lowest Common Denominator" the console market, unfortunately looking at money before gameplay.

GTA for Xbox, proves the same thing



Can it get any easier ? Next they'll be saying that you won't even have to press the button, the computer will shoot for you
And what about the poor aliasing in the Xbox GTA ? The low resolution ? I'd sooner bump up to 1280x960, with 4xAA 8xAF. than have some shiny cars.



No, I just see a wider picture here, something you obviously don't. I don't buy games for the "Wooo, look at that 3D", but sod the gameplay.
I hate the money men, the suits, of the console market. They'd rather make shed loads of money than put out anything worthy of your cash. If they could get a game out for Xmas with bugs, then they'd do it. PC is the sae, but you can patch a PC game.

I don't hate all console games, I like the exceptions.
The ICO's, The REZ'es, Project Gotham's, Ikuruga's, Super Monkey Ball Games, Some of that Nintendo magic like the Zelda's, and their NES/SNES/N64 days.
What I hate are the Metal Gear Solids, the 10 minute intro crap with cheesy acted dialogue that you can't skip, that interrupts you every 5 mins. Games that tell YOU how to play, because some dumb kid can't quite understand the concept of LEFT RIGHT. UP DOWN.

I'm sorry to have rant, I'm not normally like this. And I appologise if I offended anyone. But I do love the PC, it's my life, my livelyhood, and my gaming pleasures.
Wow, did i hit a nerve or something? Did i ever say pc's are not here to stay? Oh yea, and they don't make fifa and the like for comps right? I guess tiger woods 2k4 pretty much sux right. Btw, pc's don't get the best sports games which is sega/espn, so is that going to make you even more angry? And oh yes, one fps is sooo different than another fps. Please give me a break. It is as identical as another fifa game.

And a PC being your livelyhood is why you can't be subjective and can't stand the facts. There are a lot of good games for pc and there are a lot of good games for consoles. Just because you don't enjoy console gaming as much as pc's doesn't mean the miliions htat bought ps2's are wrong. Console gaming is where its at because it is cheap, has more exclusives, and everybody can use them.

Maybe it makes you feel better to say that games are dumbed down on consoles(deus ex) than on pc, but whatever makes you happy. Games like chrono trigger, final fantasy tactics, gladius, must be far too dumbed down for you. Get off your high horse. It matters not what system the game is made for, as long as it is an enjoyable experience.

Maybe you are heavily dissapointed that deus ex is such a crappy game, but what do you expect from them? They do it for the money, just like everybody else. And they realize that consoles is where the money is at. I game on both computers and consoles, but i spend more time playing games on my console than pc, because at this moment nothing on pc interests me. That is not always the case(Civ 3...sigh so many many many hours). But realize one without the other would be a bland gaming experience. Without consoles, computer gamer would not have rts games.
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Old 12-04-03, 10:54 AM   #57
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Not until 2006 and by that time we'll have the Xbox 2 and PS3
But that still proves that they are somewhat commited to PC. I mean, if they were only interested in Xbox2, then why waste millions developing Longhorn and DX10 ?

And nobody really knows if Xbox2 will be a success. It's been a complete failure in Japan, and will probably do the same again.
PS3, will more than likely be a complete success. Here's hoping that Sony will make the machine easier to program for. PS2, is actually harder to code for, than downloading and compiling a Linux driver.

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This is more of a Nintendo problem than anything else. And I do agree with you on that. This is why I much prefer the Xbox because it has titles that aren't run-of-the-mill. Stuff like Fusion Frenzy, Shenmue II, Ninja Gaiden and
DOAX ( ) are games that don't really follow the standard console gaming formula that Nintendo seems to have perfected.
But Fusion Frenzy, was nothing more than a cheap Mario Party rip off. Shenmue II was a dreamcast port. And at the real heart of the Shenmue games, is nothing more than a Dragon's Lair style game., with choices making up the gameplay.
Ninja Gaiden, doesn't look too bad. But does it offer anything over the Onimusha games ?
And as for DOAX, what more does it offer than DOA, DOA2, Tekken series, Virtua Fighter series ? And take away the <ahem...cough> 'Girls' and is it really a good game ?

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It seems that developers who genuinely care about the PC are becoming the exception rather than the rule, and that's sad.
I can agree with, somewhat. Money, is obviously the key. Passion, is rarerity.

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The MGS games are awesome. While their cut scenes are long and complicated, they are of the highest quality (MGS2 still looks good) all around. MGS3 looks like it's going to kick all kinds of flange.
But do you really like sneaking around for 5 minutes, then get a cut scene with cheesy acting, then another bit of sneaking around.

Is this gameplay ? Or just Art ?

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Games like chrono trigger, final fantasy tactics, gladius, must be far too dumbed down for you. Get off your high horse. It matters not what system the game is made for, as long as it is an enjoyable experience.
You obviously don't read a thing I say.
I love older games.
I would rate Chrono Trigger, as THE alltime best RPG.
And I'm not the one on a high horse. I suggest you stop with the insults, as I can't see where I've attacked you on a personal level.
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Old 12-04-03, 12:47 PM   #58
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But do you really like sneaking around for 5 minutes, then get a cut scene with cheesy acting, then another bit of sneaking around.

Is this gameplay ? Or just Art ?
I like this question. I hope it's one that we start asking more and more often, because the more we have to ask that question then the more likely we're going to be seeing more mature, varied and (hopefully) fun experiences with our games. I wouldn't want all games to be high-art experiences, but I hope that those do start to happen.

Games are a combination of both gameplay and art. I like Art - it's very good to be seeing it in the form of a game. It lends a little bit more weight to the medium. This article right here does a good job of explaining MGS2's weirdness/cheesiness - and I accept the explanation because it jives w/what I know about Japanese culture and postmodernism as a whole. MGS2, by itself, is art, which is one of the reasons why I love the game. That and I really dig the gameplay. It's fun.


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I would rate Chrono Trigger, as THE alltime best RPG.
Amen! Bring on Chrono Break!
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Old 12-04-03, 12:53 PM   #59
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DK Tonics: Would you like to quote me where i insulted you? If it is about being dumbed down, i just stated what you stated. You said console games are dumbed down for the masses. Well i proved you wrong. I am sorry you are taking it personally. And if you felt insulted from what i said, then i apologize. But to say only consoles suffer from crap recycled games is utter nonsense. When there is a hit on any platform, others try and capitalize on it. Most of the time it is utter crap, because the experience from being new and fresh is just worn out from the rehashes. This is especially true on consoles, where again, they sell a lot more copies hence make a lot more money. But then again you can say the same about any game in general. It all started from one specific hit that bloomed into all the other clones.

The lowest scores for games i have ever seen was for xbox games(gamespot). But they probably will sell...not much but they will. And i do think crono trigger was the best rpg ever, but planescape torment for pc, as well as kotor for xbox are right up there. Out of these which do you think sold the least copies and people heard of the least? PC gaming isn't ready for prime time yet. The average person probably has intergrated graphics, and the game runs like crap. He sees the same game on the console running flawlessly. Consoles are for the masses, and again, once they get more complex(next gen consoles), it would be harder to justify spending so much cash on a gaming pc.

And the main reason as i see it that xbox is failing miserably in japan, is that it has no rpg's. I love rpg's, and xbox has maybe2. Kotor, and honeslty i don't know what else. They stole rare off of nintendo, they shoulda stole squaresoft/enix off of sony. I think that would have been a better deal if at all possible.
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Old 12-04-03, 12:54 PM   #60
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I do appreciate it when games make me feel like I'm playing a movie. I felt this way about Shenmue/II and Half-Life. From what I've seen of D3 and HL2 it will be the same way, which is awesome for the FPS genre.

I just reinstalled Half-Life and I'm going to restart that journey again very soon.
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