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Old 09-24-02, 09:05 AM   #13
FastM
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Creative sound cards are also know to Hog the PCI bus, And the problem with the 686b SB also included Corrupt Data on your HD. Although i hasve always used VIA Chipsets and SB SoundCards and not had problems, the Hogging the PCI bus is what interests me the most, considering i use a PCI Raid Controller.

Frank_L, Microbytes does have good prices and i go there to get all my little cooling gadets, Fans and stuff, but Frostys's is located Just over the Mercier Bridge on the Indian Reserve and they dont charge tax
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Old 09-24-02, 09:33 AM   #14
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Yup, exact reason I got rid of it.Creative drivers suck and they can't write them good enough to use their hardware. These things the common person does not know about and it's really sad that Creative is where they are while companies like Turtlebeach and Hercules suffer from less exposure.

Kills me that they are going to release Audigy 2, another POS that will have even bigger POS drivers.
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Old 09-24-02, 04:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fluke
Yup, exact reason I got rid of it.Creative drivers suck and they can't write them good enough to use their hardware. These things the common person does not know about and it's really sad that Creative is where they are while companies like Turtlebeach and Hercules suffer from less exposure.

Kills me that they are going to release Audigy 2, another POS that will have even bigger POS drivers.
Sorry to say this Fluke, but I really think your speaking out your a**. Ive had a SBLive 1024(value) for going on three years now, and not once have I ever had a problem with drivers and whatnot. Guess what, my motherboard uses a VIA chipset, no crackles pops or anything else but good sound. I think that you are slagging off Creative just for the sake of it? Yes I have read thier forums, and yes alot of people have problems, but these problems might not all be the sound cards fault? VIAs maybe? something else in the pc? Maybe people need to know how to fix or put together thier pcs better?
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Old 09-24-02, 09:04 PM   #16
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Nah Creative sucks. I've never been happy with this card. I had a Live before which was decent but in reality they aren't performers. Hercules and Turtle Beach are gaming cards and they been concentrating on them for games for a while now. I've read enough to know Hercules is more of a gaming card, not Audigy. Hercules listens to its customers and in time of need have replied with updates quickly, Creative Labs? Muahahahah you wish...My attitude for Creative is blah! It's an everyday users multimedia card, general purpose.

I've read at least from 3 different sites over the months about Audigy being a pig on the bus and time and time again with a little digging I've come to believe them, their facts are believable. Audigy 2 is just a continuation of that junk that people wont get to even appreciate in games. I'm going with a card for today, not tomorrow, tomorrow always changes. Creative support is completely useless as well, just wanted to add that. 1 year practically for a updated driver is pretty damn sad, especially for a newly introduced card. You're just a dollar sign to Creative, one day you will figure it out.

Last edited by Fluke; 09-24-02 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 09-25-02, 05:37 AM   #17
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First and formost, Im just a $ to every company, always remeber that. Sure Creative dont have lots of driver updates, but as I said Ive never had any problems so why do I need the driver updates? Since XP I believe that that have put out? 3-4 drivers. Do you play EAX games? Because if you did you would know that EAX games sound great on SBLive cards. Alot of Audigy owners love thier card, maybe you should ask them why? Can you give me some links to the Audigy 2 reviews cos I havent seen any yet myself, so I would like to read where they state that its junk. There were alot and I mean alot of good reviews when the Audigy came out. Ive never said anything bad towards the other makers of sound cards as I havent used them, but honestly the are all probably about the same in games and playing music on the pc, remeber if I want to listern to good quality I'll do so on my stereo not my pc Anyway each to there own, just dont slag of another company like that when alot of people inclucding myself are happy with their products (sound card and speakers only )
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Old 09-25-02, 07:48 AM   #18
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Enjoy your card. As for me, I just know more than you and perhaps one day you might realize the realities of Creative. I did my research you do your own, or do you really need someone to hold your hand and show you?

As for listening to my stereo. Umm, my computer is my stereo, it outputs to a amplifier that plays out of speakers in multiple sections of my house. My music is all controlled from my PC.

Like I said before, if Creative is all that you say it is, why do they have to litter trade magazines with their advertisements? Surely a company with such a great reputation and great products shouldn't have to advertise to the extent they do right? Their reasons are obvious just you can't see it. But keep looking through those magazines and count how many TurtleBeach or Hercules sound card full-page ad's you see. Chances are you wont see any. Hercules and TurtleBeach as examples rely on their customers to spread the word about their products, they don't need fullpage ads.

You will never find a site that reviews a Creative card poorly. Review sites don't go deep enough to present you with the important information, they present the obvious. Something you clearly base your opinions on which I am at fault for too, until recently. Also a lot of review sites like Tom's Hardware are not honest sites and likley get paid off for their reviews. I've seen evidence of it time and time again, and someone on this forum has just recently highlighted yet another cheap review/preview by Tom @ Tom's Hardware. Sites have gone down for being exposed for corrupt reviews...Like I said, you will have to dig to get to the nitty gritty.

Creative will never sit in my PC, my friends nor my family's machine. Ever! Deal with it.

Last edited by Fluke; 09-25-02 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 09-25-02, 09:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smokey


Sorry to say this Fluke, but I really think your speaking out your a**. Ive had a SBLive 1024(value) for going on three years now, and not once have I ever had a problem with drivers and whatnot. Guess what, my motherboard uses a VIA chipset, no crackles pops or anything else but good sound. I think that you are slagging off Creative just for the sake of it? Yes I have read thier forums, and yes alot of people have problems, but these problems might not all be the sound cards fault? VIAs maybe? something else in the pc? Maybe people need to know how to fix or put together thier pcs better?
There are issues with Via chipsets and PCI latencies. This probably contributes a bit to the reports of problems with the Creative soundcards. However, reports weren't limited to Via users, by any means. Intel users have experienced the same problems.


[IMO]
Hint:

Bus hogging PCI device = bad.
Chipset with PCI latency issues = bad.
Bus hogging PCI device + Chipset with PCI latency issues = VERY bad.

Got that?

Okay, lesson #2:
I had a Live Value for a long time too. No real problems for the first year, on an Intel BX-based chipset motherboard, running Intel P3's. Then I got a RAID controller, along with Win2K. Guess what? MUCHO problems. Remove sound card, substitute OLD ISA soundcard. Problems went away. Wanted to try new Creative drivers (LiveWare 3, at that time). Guess what else? To get those drivers, I had to pay for a CD. They refused to make the full drivers / updated utilities supporting them freely available. (I could get core drivers, but then I lost the added utilities to take full advantage of the extended EAX support, etc.).

Conclusion:
Creative hardware might be pretty good (a BIG might), but if so, then the drivers suck. They don't play nice on the PCI bus, and if you have other devices that heavily utilize the bus (but play by the rules), such as RAID controllers and whatnot, you're 2x more likely to see the issues with the sound breaking up and crackling, regardless of chipset. Add in Via's chipsets and their known problems with latency, and you've got a less than 50-50 chance of getting a problem-free setup.

Guess what else. My Hercules sound card, while not only cheaper, has all the same capabilities as the Higher end creative cards (except for the funked up proprietary SPDIF implementation creative decided to use), but it also works perfectly kosher with my RAID controller on a Via-based setup. Wonder of wonders..

As far as EAX goes, sure Creative sounds better with it. It's their specification, after all. And when they're busy hogging the PCI bus for their own data, they'd sure as heck better make sure that the sound being produced is good. Otherwise there'd be no reason whatsoever to use their cards. As a side note, it may not be quite as good at it, but the Hercules (and by now, loads of other brands) can and do produce EAX output. Not that I use it, since the EAX effects are usually too emphasized over the rest of a game's sounds, making them seem out-of-place. The effects need toned down so that they blend better with the rest of the sound output, while still adding to the experience, imo.

But at any rate Smokey, it's obvious your setup works for you. Kudos. Enjoy it. Thus doesn't change the fact that the lesser known / sold products are still a better bet for most people one iota.

[/IMO]
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Old 09-25-02, 10:07 AM   #20
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To tell you the truth i dont like EAX eithe, Even with my Audigy i always choose HardWare sound, not EAX.

Like SnakeEyes said, i find the EAX efffects not well controlled, meaning at one point an explosion will sound so loud i cant here anything else, but with just Hardware Sound i get a more balanced sounds. Its hard to explain but i know what my ears like.
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Old 09-25-02, 10:36 AM   #21
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SnakeEyes, he's a Creative lover oblivious to the shortfallings of Creative. He hasn't taken any time to research it. He's one of a million others that as soon as they hear sound they are happy. They don't know the undelying reasons, the performance drawbacks, the reason why they can't have high quality sound settings in their games with a supposed top end card. God, he probably doesn't even realize his fps drops in games. These are the customers that Creative has that keeps them where they are.

I'm just happy that I've realized all this stuff now and I can move on to a company that truely cares about performance and well written drivers that utilize a cards strengths and doesn't limit you in your games. Hats off to Hercules and all the other competitors to Creative. Thank you for sticking in there and providing us alternatives.
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Old 09-25-02, 08:16 PM   #22
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fluke, your right about other cards being better than creative cards, but all that bs about the millions of people that hear sound and happy and don't notice fps drops, thats all bs. i'm a serious gamer, and i've own many live cards before, and i had unreal tournament on max quality settings, max quality sound, 48000hz, eax patches from creative for ut, and all that. all that connected to my fps2000, and the speakers in my sig. framerate was awesome, and no slow down in online play in big fragging fights. sure, some people probably have problems, but thats probably because they don't have the latest drivers, don't tweak, etc.
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Old 09-25-02, 10:53 PM   #23
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I had problems with my Live, thcdru2k. Trust me though, I am the type to nearly always get the latest drivers (especially if they add something I really want), and I'm even more likely to tweak the crap out of whatever I had. That didn't fix my problems for me. Plain and simple, Creative's cards work fine in very specific sorts of settings, and if your hardware is outside that envelope, you're at the mercy of luck.

Anyhow, I'll get off the anti-Creative sound card bandwagon. That's one that others can fight. I gave up caring a long time ago, when Creative made it clear how little they cared whether I could use their products, so long as they could get my money.

Most companies only want the dough, but Creative's sloppier than others because they know they're big enough that most people buy purely on their name alone. The ads and store shelves carrying more Creative products than anything else haven't hurt them either. If they really had to compete on the quality of their products, then I think we'd see much better drivers, and probably better hardware (not meaning advertised features changing, just compatibility of the cards in a wider range of system configurations, and a general concern about whether their product does what it does and plays nice as it does it.

Peace out.
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Old 09-26-02, 07:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by thcdru2k
fluke, your right about other cards being better than creative cards, but all that bs about the millions of people that hear sound and happy and don't notice fps drops, thats all bs. i'm a serious gamer, and i've own many live cards before, and i had unreal tournament on max quality settings, max quality sound, 48000hz, eax patches from creative for ut, and all that. all that connected to my fps2000, and the speakers in my sig. framerate was awesome, and no slow down in online play in big fragging fights. sure, some people probably have problems, but thats probably because they don't have the latest drivers, don't tweak, etc.
Ya Live card. My focus is on Audigy. I know Live card is decent, plus the Live card has been out a long time. It took some time before Creative got the driers somewhat right for Live, but even Live I have read about has mediocre drivers, same problems as Audigy but its on a lesser card that doesn't handle as many MIPS as the Audigy. Audigy is cream of the crop. Cream of the crop hardware, just the drivers completely suck and after 1 year they still fail to deliver good solid drivers and they continue to flood the bus. It could take another year before Creative gets it right, and right now I doubt there is too much emphasis on it. Thats the feeling I get from Creative.

My problem is is that I have to order this Hercules card online and even thats hard as it is out of stock everywhere! Canada is all Creative Labs which is sad and the USA is almost the same thing except for online shopping..but there is none available anywhere...
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