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Old 09-26-02, 08:40 AM   #25
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Originally posted by Fluke
but it still concerns me that the 6.1 is the only card sporting this chip... i wonder if there are problems down the road for this DSP and that is the reason Hercules is downgrading their DSP... That would be cool though that an update will bring it to 7.1
You might want to email them and ask what's the deal. Of course I wouldn't expect a decent reply anyway heh
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[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 09-26-02, 09:26 AM   #26
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After reading through the specs of both, the http://www.cirrus.com/design/product...etail.cfm?d=42 only upgrade the CS4630 has over the CS4624 seems to be more Onboard Cache giving it 420 MIPs SLIMD DSP (whatever that means) with the CS4624 @ 255 MIPs SLIMD. The CS4630 also sports EAX 1.0 where the CS4624 says EAX support.

I still think its just to keep the cost down on the lower models.
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Old 09-28-02, 09:27 AM   #27
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Originally posted by Fluke
Yup, exact reason I got rid of it.Creative drivers suck and they can't write them good enough to use their hardware. These things the common person does not know about and it's really sad that Creative is where they are while companies like Turtlebeach and Hercules suffer from less exposure.
Ah yeah and you mistakely think Hercules drivers are great.

Wanna see poor drivers try Philips.

Quote:
Kills me that they are going to release Audigy 2, another POS that will have even bigger POS drivers.
Its funny to see Creative ragged on for releasing the Audigy 2. Meanwhile Hercules releases new Fortissimo and Game Theatre soundcards and the only real difference between them is a driver upgrade.

Oh can't forget Hercules released the XP Theatre 7.1 with an inferior chip than that line had before. And now also the GTXP 6.1 as this thread sadly reveals: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...&threadid=2296

And there Philips goes releasing new soundcards when the drivers for their old ones aren't great.

Quote:
Nah Creative sucks. I've never been happy with this card. I had a Live before which was decent but in reality they aren't performers. Hercules and Turtle Beach are gaming cards and they been concentrating on them for games for a while now. I've read enough to know Hercules is more of a gaming card, not Audigy. Hercules listens to its customers and in time of need have replied with updates quickly, Creative Labs? Muahahahah you wish...My attitude for Creative is blah! It's an everyday users multimedia card, general purpose.
Nope, the Audigy has the best EAX implementation and is more of a gaming card than those are.

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I've read at least from 3 different sites over the months about Audigy being a pig on the bus and time and time again with a little digging I've come to believe them, their facts are believable. Audigy 2 is just a continuation of that junk that people wont get to even appreciate in games. I'm going with a card for today, not tomorrow, tomorrow always changes. Creative support is completely useless as well, just wanted to add that. 1 year practically for a updated driver is pretty damn sad, especially for a newly introduced card. You're just a dollar sign to Creative, one day you will figure it out.
Like Hercules drivers tech support are so great. Good luck for someone new to get into Hercules forum. Is the forum on the Hercules site even up today?

Believe it or not other soundcards like the Philips Acoustic edge have problems with crackling.

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Enjoy your card. As for me, I just know more than you and perhaps one day you might realize the realities of Creative. I did my research you do your own, or do you really need someone to hold your hand and show you?
Yeah we get the picture, Creative is the devil. Funny some say the same about Nvidia.

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Like I said before, if Creative is all that you say it is, why do they have to litter trade magazines with their advertisements? Surely a company with such a great reputation and great products shouldn't have to advertise to the extent they do right? Their reasons are obvious just you can't see it. But keep looking through those magazines and count how many TurtleBeach or Hercules sound card full-page ad's you see. Chances are you wont see any. Hercules and TurtleBeach as examples rely on their customers to spread the word about their products, they don't need fullpage ads.
Sheesh talk about nitpicking. Why does ATI advertise all over the place? Why do other companies do the same? Cause they can. Go ask Turtle Beach and Hercules why they don't advertise more.

Quote:
Creative will never sit in my PC, my friends nor my family's machine. Ever! Deal with it.
You deal with it. Creative is here to stay and some folks out there aren't on the Creative Hater bandwagon™.

Last edited by sbp; 09-28-02 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 09-28-02, 01:11 PM   #28
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What a bunch of hype. Benchmark a few different games, both with software sound and with hardware sound with the Audigy or the Live (btw, the Live with the original drivers wayyy back when it released had pretty good [read: little] CPU utilization, which has steadily gotten worse with every driver release). Then do the benchmarks with another card. I sympathize if you can't live without the Creative's sound effects in your games, because with that limitation you're a bit stuck. I agree that Creative handles EAX with the best overall output. On the other hand, since I don't care for EAX effects too much with ANY card (I have the Live still, so I've heard the difference between EAX on Creative vs. EAX elsewhere, vs no EAX), it's no big deal for me.

What I found interesting, and maybe it's just Creative's drivers, is that up until recently (other than the original set for the Live cards) Creative sound cards seem to cause fairly big hits to my games' performance, and that's bad when in situations where 2-10 fps difference is all that stands between feeling smooth and feeling stuttery. That stuttering means that no matter how good the EAX minigun might sound, if you can't hit the target, it's YOU that gets to feel the effects of the weapon on health. My Hercules GTXP doesn't have those issues.

As far as overall support and driver bugs go, I'd have to say that I see no difference between Hercules and Creative. Neither is very responsive, neither releases drivers in response to bugs when WE want or need them. Since this is basically a draw, the real issue is the overall state of outstanding bugs and the overall effect on the system's performance. This is where Hercules first got my attention. Add that to the value ($$ for features), and Hercules swept Creative out of my case. At this moment my mind is set on the idea that it's for good. I guess Creative could suddenly decide to fix the PCI hogging issues, and I might change my mind. But until that happens, I'll stay away Creative.

Pretty much the same decision I'm coming to for Via chipsets. Right now I'm using a KT333. Overall this is a pretty nice motherboard, but this chipset has a known issue with the PCI bus and latency (ugh, too bad I didn't know, but that just goes to show that you need to do good research). This particular bug results in my 2x IBM 60GB DMA7200 RAID0 array on a Promise FastTrak100TX2 being basically only slightly better than either drive running by itself.

The same drives and controller (same configuration) running on my last motherboard (Asus A7M266) using the AMD761/Via chipset hybrid, which relied primarily on the AMD for the PCI side of things nearly doubled the scores I see in this motherboard now. No more Via for me in the future, no matter how much I like the rest of the motherboard's features and stability. The performance difference and the time spent trying to overcome the issue is more than enough to tell me that Via wants my money, and is content to let me deal with the problem. (There've been at least 3 chipsets Via has released with this issue in a row now, at least from what I've been reading)

This closely parallels Creative's issues with the Live and now the Audigy. I really have to wonder if Audigy2 is going to be the same way?
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Old 09-28-02, 01:14 PM   #29
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BTW, I wouldn't say I'm on the Creative Hater bandwagon so much as I'm on the Keep Creative Trash Outta My System League. If they start making stuff that isn't trash, or prove to me (through drivers that work without causing strange problems or just take over the PCI bus), then I'll get that hardware. I can do that and still be in this league. Of course, a more accuracte name is probably the Keep Trashy Hardware Outta My System League. Creative's sound cards just are one of the lucky recipients to be awarded the addition to the list.
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Old 09-29-02, 03:43 AM   #30
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you guys make some good points about Creative, but blaming them for having a functional marketing division is ridiculous. why shouldn't they advertise heavily? they've been doing it for as long as i can remember, and that was when they held the market in their grip.

i'd be more worried about whether or not Audigy 2 actually supports 24bit sound unlike Audigy 1 which stretched their marketing claims a bit as to the cards real capabilities. anyway, regardles of how "bad" Audigy is hardware/driverwise, many people still swear that it provided better sound quality than Live did.
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Old 09-29-02, 08:26 AM   #31
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I don't think I said that their marketing was bad. At least I hope not. I haven't had a problem with any company wanting to make the availability and features of their product line known to the potential buyers. Creative does exaggerate, but that's what marketing is, and has been, for a while now.

My problems are nearly entirely with the hardware, drivers, and support side of things. Basically, the 'reality' behind the hardware. For the $$ that Creative likes to charge for their cards, they should be much better than they are. If it wasn't for Hercules, Philips, et al, stepping up with good alternative products, Creative's prices would have continued to go higher too. That, with the PCI hogging that the Live/Audigy cards exhibit took the cards off my wish list a while ago.
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Old 09-30-02, 03:16 AM   #32
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Fluke said that marketing was bad SnakeEyes, not you.

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Like I said before, if Creative is all that you say it is, why do they have to litter trade magazines with their advertisements? Surely a company with such a great reputation and great products shouldn't have to advertise to the extent they do right?
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Old 09-30-02, 08:50 AM   #33
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sbp, I don't know why I even bothered messing with your superior intellect, but I figured I'd give it a shot......

Ah yeah and you mistakely think Hercules drivers are great.
Wanna see poor drivers try Philips.

Hercules drivers are great and they work perfectly fine without hogging the bus, unlike Creative. Of course you have no clue, you believe every word on the Creative box. You're brainwashed. Philips? Who gives 2 craps about Philips??


Its funny to see Creative ragged on for releasing the Audigy 2. Meanwhile Hercules releases new Fortissimo and Game Theatre soundcards and the only real difference between them is a driver upgrade.
Oh can't forget Hercules released the XP Theatre 7.1 with an inferior chip than that line had before. And now also the GTXP 6.1 as this thread sadly reveals: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/sho...=&threadid=2296
And there Philips goes releasing new soundcards when the drivers for their old ones aren't great.

Why should they release Audigy 2? They haven't even completed Audigy 1 and they don't even have respectable drivers for Audigy1? Do you go to the newsgroups, do you read the posts where people claim that Audigy doesn't even have support for some of the features listed on the box? I was crashing for nearly a year with my Audigy and Creative didn't give a ****. I have yet to hear of a critical or performance worsening driver from Hercules. Unless of course you have some proof. And how many Creative cards do you know that can have a driver update and update the capabilities of it's card? Despite your disillusions and obvious lack of knowledge of Theatre XP, there is not very many reviews that rate it under a 9/10.

Nope, the Audigy has the best EAX implementation and is more of a gaming card than those are.

Who cares about EAX? Hercules supports EAX and EAX2 and lots of people say it's getting a lot better. Of course only Creative is privy to "all" the EAX underlyings, do you think they openly share with the community? Muahahaha, ya right. If it's one thing I don't care for is EAX, something I truely wont miss. But I have heard it is still very decent on Hercules if I should enable it.


Like Hercules drivers tech support are so great. Good luck for someone new to get into Hercules forum. Is the forum on the Hercules site even up today?

Believe it or not other soundcards like the Philips Acoustic edge have problems with crackling.

Hercules Tech support is fine, do you know of any people complaining about Hercules drivers? Whenever there has been an issue Hercules has always been fast to update their drivers. Hercules also doesn't suffer from cracking or popping noise.

Yeah we get the picture, Creative is the devil. Funny some say the same about Nvidia

Nvidia is an excellent company. Creative is junk. Where's the confusion? Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Nvidia put out a driver nearly every month?? How about Creative? Don't diss Nvidia, they rock in support. Just like the UT2K3 demo problems, they had a new driver our that fixed it all up in almost 1 week? You think Creative would do that for you!?!?! AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!

Sheesh talk about nitpicking. Why does ATI advertise all over the place? Why do other companies do the same? Cause they can. Go ask Turtle Beach and Hercules why they don't advertise more.

I couldn't care less where ATI advertises. I was a customer a while back with ATI and I never will be again. Nvidia owns ATI in so many ways it's not funny. ATI may initially have the lead with the 9700 card but it wont last long, Nvidia will always put ATI in their place. Which is Last. All I was saying is that Creative is the biggest Magazine spammer of all hardware. And who doesn't know about Creative?? It's called brainwashing. They know someone is going to see Creative all over the place and when they go into a store, the last thing they will think about is a Santa Cruz or Hercules... that's Creatives whole plan. Brainwashing. It obviously worked on you sbp.
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