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Old 12-31-03, 04:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob_0126
I have a stack of pc games on this table beside me, and half of them were crap, but couldn't find out without buying them, and opening the box.

I think it's a bunch of hog wash that we have to accept an unfinished product, because of 'copyright' laws. What about the laws that protect my $50 from crap!!!
It's called either "vigilante justice" or "piracy" now, depending on your point of view.
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Old 12-31-03, 04:36 PM   #26
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Ah, the motto of the American economy--caveat emptor.

And folks, don't let this turn into a warez discussion thread.
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Old 12-31-03, 04:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob_0126
It is true that console games can be bought at the store, and returned, MOST places, but pc games have some kind of copyright crap stuck to them, that hinders everyone, that buys a crappy game, to just eat it.

I dont believe in wares(I use to be into it) because it is plain wrong, but I do think that their should be some kind of way for us to play the game, B4 it is released.

Maybe for us 56k'ers, send out the demo cd to the stores, bout 2 weeks before the game hits. This would cost me a whole $5 to find out if it's a dud or not.

I have a stack of pc games on this table beside me, and half of them were crap, but couldn't find out without buying them, and opening the box.

I think it's a bunch of hog wash that we have to accept an unfinished product, because of 'copyright' laws. What about the laws that protect my $50 from crap!!!

Robert
You have no right to play a game before it is released. It is stealing. If we ignore copywright laws then why don't we ignore tax laws, murder, rape ect. You are justifying your impatients.


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What about the laws that protect my $50 from crap!!!
This doesn't make any sense. It is a self centered view. Why should the government make a law for you pickyness?
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Old 12-31-03, 05:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
And folks, don't let this turn into a warez discussion thread.
Uh oh, I hear a Thread Lock Stick powering up...
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Old 12-31-03, 05:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Baron
Ah, the motto of the American economy--caveat emptor.

And folks, don't let this turn into a warez discussion thread.
I completely hat warez so nipping that discussion in the butt is fine with me.

I use Amiga as my example of what piracy can do to a company.
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Old 12-31-03, 05:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by UDawg
You have no right to play a game before it is released. It is stealing. If we ignore copywright laws then why don't we ignore tax laws, murder, rape ect. You are justifying your impatients.
I said a DEMO. Do you test drive a car before you buy it, or do you order it over the net, with no picture of it?

Im not talking warez, Im talking something that shows how it plays.

Quote:

This doesn't make any sense. It is a self centered view. Why should the government make a law for you pickyness?
Pickyness? Sense when is it picky, to put up $50 for a game, that is suppose to be finished?

Take 'Enter the Matrix' for instance. It was so buggy on release, some stores sent the games back to the manufacturer. The flaws were show stopping, and the majority of the ppl couldn't even get the game to play.

On a sidenote, I dont understand why, at gamestop, that they dont set up a PC to play the new games that come in, like the consoles are setup?
Why should the gamecube, etc, let ppl see what the game is like, before they buy it, and not us PC gamers?

You must read what I have typed, before you start making major leaps in conclusions about what Im talking about.

Robert
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Old 12-31-03, 05:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Do you test drive a car before you buy


Games are not cars. You are comparing apples an oranges.


Quote:
Im not talking warez, Im talking something that shows how it plays.


They do. Go to their web sites. There is so much marketing, trailers, in-game movies ect. Besides companies have a track record you can follow ie., EA has a very good track record for sports games, there fore it is a pretty good bet you will get a nice product. There is no guarintee you will like the game but with so many puter set ups, consoles and hackers out there it is impossible to make every one happy.


Quote:
Pickyness? Sense when is it picky, to put up $50 for a game, that is suppose to be finished?


There is no guarintee you will like the game but with so many puter set ups, consoles and hackers out there it is impossible to make every one happy. (same sentence applies here.



Quote:
Take 'Enter the Matrix' for instance. It was so buggy on release, some stores sent the games back to the manufacturer. The flaws were show stopping, and the majority of the ppl couldn't even get the game to play.


If that company continues to put out a poor product then they will not be in business long. I don't buy games from certain companies because they have a poor track record of quality.


Quote:
On a sidenote, I dont understand why, at gamestop, that they dont set up a PC to play the new games that come in, like the consoles are setup?
Why should the gamecube, etc, let ppl see what the game is like, before they buy it, and not us PC gamers?


Bring this up to them. Maybe they will look into it and see if will help sales. I wager it doesn't help sales other wise they would have a system set up for demos. I know they used to have one set up. Too many people would crash it. The employees spend most the time fixing the demo system. Still bring this idea up to them and see how it goes.



Quote:
You must read what I have typed, before you start making major leaps in conclusions about what Im talking about.


I wouldn't have replied to you if I didn't read your post.

Your over all point was in a round about way justifying leaks. I took the opposite position. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I didn't read your post or not understand it.

Quote:
I think it's a bunch of hog wash that we have to accept an unfinished product, because of 'copyright' laws. What about the laws that protect my $50 from crap!!!


I was responding to the above quote when I said this.. "You have no right to play a game before it is released. It is stealing. If we ignore copywright laws then why don't we ignore tax laws, murder, rape ect. You are justifying your impatients."

Last edited by UDawg; 12-31-03 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 12-31-03, 07:12 PM   #32
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I would like to interject my two cents here real quick.

It would be really nice if there were demos released closer to release dates. I'm not saying before the game comes out, but let's take Halo for example. I personally love Halo, on Xbox and PC, but how long did it take after the PC version was released for the demo to show up on the net. I do know a number of game magazines do also have demo discs with their issues, which is nice as long as the demos are in a timely manner.

I am lucky to be a broadband user, and can download whatever, so that's not an issue. But it would be nice if within a week a demo was out for a game that was just released. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I wouldn't think it'd take much for a developer to release the first level of a game as a demo just after the retail product hits shelves.

However, I too have a number of bad games in my collection, and I take sole responsibility for not researching my purchases before plopping 50 bucks on a counter for a bad game. Maybe it's just me, but I've always found plenty of web sites and magazines to give me information about a game (or whatever else) before making the purchase, and sometimes I get caught up in the hype and lose some money, but oh well.

But to say something on topic, I must say that these leaks are just...well...dumb. It's an interesting idea to say, "I beat x game two months before it was released," but you're playing through an unfinished work. If you have the patience to work with the crazy bugs and unpolished code, the more power to you. Again, maybe it's just me, but waiting a couple more months for a game to come out so they can finish whatever they feel needs to be finished is fine, gives me more time to finish the million and one games I have that I've never completed yet.

EDIT: Okay, so maybe it wasn't real quick
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Old 12-31-03, 09:30 PM   #33
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Yeah, I never take leaked alphas to be a full indication of what the game will be like. It gives you a small taste, and shows you a small glimps of what to expect, but you shouldn't judge a game on it. I really liked the HL2 alpha, because as a map designer/3d animator myself I really got a chance to see the game in the form it's currently being worked on, rather then only seeing the end result. It's like looking at a painting before it's finished. And especially after seeing some of the problems they have to overcome, I can better appreciate how much work they put into the game.

But in the same way, even seeing a few suprising or impressive things in a game's early alpha gets me excited for the game. When the Doom 3 alpha was leaked, what did we see? Basicly the exact same thing that we saw at E3, except that we had more time to look at it. Even the Half-life 2 build showed things we had already seen at E3, except now we can play it for ourselves. Sure, it gives us access to things we aren't supposed to see yet, but really most leaks are just extended versions of content we've already seen. But then again they also reveal that what we see is not always what we get (like the soldier kicking down the door in HL2 being scripted...)

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EDIT: Okay, so maybe it wasn't real quick
Yeah, my posts are like that too
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Old 12-31-03, 09:42 PM   #34
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So if I mention that Painkiller has an alpha loose now too would that be warez or news talk?
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Old 12-31-03, 10:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by UDawg
Your over all point was in a round about way justifying leaks. I took the opposite position. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I didn't read your post or not understand it.
Whoops, I guess I came across wrong.

I was really throwing some info out, to say that demos should be released before the games come out, to give us a chance to sample the product, and see if it's what we want.

Im not condowning alpha leaks

I use to dabble in 'warez' way back, and it really is like stealing. The internet brings about a major temptation, in many forms these days.
This truely is the problem, and of course, the will's of us all.

The best thing to do is hope for the best and realize that it is just wrong. These days in particular, the line between Right & Wrong has gotten turned upside down, and it shows. All we can do is hold fast the truth, and what is Right.

You know, if it wasn't for the hackers, warez peddlers, and every other would be crook, we might not have to bear these horrid copy protection schemes and lengths the dev's have to go to, to secure their product.

Robert
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Old 12-31-03, 10:36 PM   #36
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"You have no right to play a game before it is released."


From what I hear, there is no gameplay in the leak, so no foul play. Absolutely no gameplay at all. Infact, less than a demo. Basically a bugridden version of a few screens everyone has seen is all. LOL The most telling thing I have heard, is that, GSC indeed knows how to code, and you won`t need any monster systems to run it as many have been fearing.

IMHO the worst thing a dev can do is hype a game over 2 years or more. Valve did the gaming community an honor by waiting to announce HL 2. Thus allowing everyone to not get so antsy bout its release. If devs or those the hire for PR were more judicious bout hype, and announce 6 to 9 months at the most before release, and allow a timely demo, alot of the problems would go away. If not, reap whatyas sow I say.
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