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Old 02-08-04, 10:15 AM   #25
NAZCA M12
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Consoles are like yogurts. They have an expiration date, and they will suck after that for a few years till the companies decide to change them. So the new PS3 is gonna have this and that or the Xbox 2 will be a hell of a console? Ask them where are they going to be (in comparison to PC's) after 1-2 years from their original release.
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Old 02-08-04, 10:38 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
I'm afraid you PC fanboys are in denial. Being one myself I can understand. The technology is advancing so fast that they will be able to create a console that can do the best graphics your eyes can visually discern in a cheap $100-$200 package soon. Maybe not with the X-box2/PS3/Gameshpere generation, but probably the next gen, out in 2010-2011. You won't be able to do better graphics/AI etc. so there will be no point to buying PCs for gaming anymore, as you can get the best of everything on a cheap console. PC gaming won't just die out all of the sudden then, but it will fade away over a few years, and developers will just stop making PC games. I'm sure some PC gaming will remain, but only in the form of user-created games most likely, or a very small niche market.

This is all 7-8 years away though, so don't worry now.
Your theory could alsmot work accept for the big setback, your assumeing game complexity never changes and graphcis never change.

And with the console that is ture, games never get more complex or better looking, the Xbox is locked in the year 1999. But As software evolves and as they push for more graphics and better ai, better physics and voice recogintion and some feature that we dont know we want yet (like physicis, tha is in EVERY new game). Consoles are locked in how many features they can add for around 5 years, but the PC they just keep adding them on as fast as they can invent them.
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Old 02-08-04, 12:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by GlowStick
Your theory could alsmot work accept for the big setback, your assumeing game complexity never changes and graphcis never change.

And with the console that is ture, games never get more complex or better looking, the Xbox is locked in the year 1999. But As software evolves and as they push for more graphics and better ai, better physics and voice recogintion and some feature that we dont know we want yet (like physicis, tha is in EVERY new game). Consoles are locked in how many features they can add for around 5 years, but the PC they just keep adding them on as fast as they can invent them.
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, there will be a point when you can't create better physics, you already have real-life physics, you can't create better graphics, you already have real-life graphics, etc.

What will a faster PC have over a $100 console then? Nothing really. From a developers stand point the PC will be virtually dead.
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Old 02-08-04, 01:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, there will be a point when you can't create better physics, you already have real-life physics, you can't create better graphics, you already have real-life graphics, etc.

What will a faster PC have over a $100 console then? Nothing really. From a developers stand point the PC will be virtually dead.

Well, thankfully, fully-simulated real-life physics are quite a ways off. But once you max out the physics, and the graphics can't be improved upon, the cutting edge tech will move towards something else. I think, however, that 2D presentation will stick around, like there are things you can do in 2D that don't work as well in 3D, there are undoubtedly things in a 2D presentation (i.e. a monitor) that 3D presentation won't be able to do as well (i.e. the holodeck).

But once you have maxed out the tech, that doesn't mean your creativity for game creation is gone, and neither will people suddenly up and decide that video games are boring. People will still want to play video games. Graphics just won't be major wow factor anymore


I mean, games are still games, and people will want to play games. Graphics just won't be a major reason to play one game over another - it'll be down to gameplay, and it'll be interesting to see what new things we start seeing once people have stopped obsessing over how beautiful a game is and start looking at the gameplay more.

Or maybe our civilization will be destroyed by banana-shaped aliens from Centauri and we won't have to worry about it.
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Old 02-08-04, 01:16 PM   #29
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Old 02-08-04, 01:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, there will be a point when you can't create better physics, you already have real-life physics, you can't create better graphics, you already have real-life graphics, etc.

What will a faster PC have over a $100 console then? Nothing really. From a developers stand point the PC will be virtually dead.
Yes, but what i am trying to say is that point can never be reached.

Why are we not all useing DOS? it was surely good enough plenty fast you could do everything from it!

Then came windows 3.1 ...... wow, its so much better, you can have multiple apps run, whoa we will never need anything better than that, and 8mb of ram is wayyyyy to much.

Windows 95 higher resolution, more color depth

Windows 98 "
winders 2000 " " multiple monitors 2 +
winders XP " " higher resoltuion icons so on so on etc 'interactive background' 'voice recoginiton'

Mainly what im saying is even if we look away and say its possible to make a perfect physics engine, people will not be satisfied with the amount of features we have today.

Most 3d games of today have
3d Graphics
Texturing
Pritty good Models

Next Gen 3d games seem to have
all of the above
Physics Engines on *SOME* objects

Next Next Gen 3d games will have
all of the above
Unified lighting
Physics applied to *more* stuff
*something that hasent been invented yet

if i could tell ya what it is, id be rich
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Old 02-08-04, 01:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, there will be a point when you can't create better physics, you already have real-life physics, you can't create better graphics, you already have real-life graphics, etc
Actually, it's YOU thats misunderstanding everything.

We are years, and years, and years, away from real-life graphics, and to some extent, physics.
There are far too many variables to factor in, before you even come close to real-life. Even a brick wall, would be impossible to render perfectly. Every brick is different, and the closer you get, the more detail you see.

And by the time they eventually get just close to real-life, there will be something completely different to play games on. So it's all a mute point..

Quote:
What will a faster PC have over a $100 console then? Nothing really. From a developers stand point the PC will be virtually dead.
When was the last time you saw a $100 console ?
And the PC has speed,
NO development License costs,
Far easier to develop for, no need to spend 3 years learning how the thing works,
Almost No limitations. If you hit a limit on a fixed platform, you're stuck with that limit.
No region locks, I can play a PC game from any region, with only language permitting.
And finally, Cost of software. Something the console fanboys quite easily forget.
PC games will always be cheaper than consoles, especially is you add up a couple of years worth.
Over
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Old 02-08-04, 01:24 PM   #32
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[rant]Well, from what i've seen of the rumored specs on the next-gen consoles, PC's will never go out of style.
Configuring you game to your standards (Faster, console like, or Sloww, 1600x1200, pretty) is one of many things PC games have which no console ever will, considering the forced standards on a console.
However, a lot more PC/Console inbreeding is happening: Star Wars: KOTOR from Xbox-PC, Halo PC-Xbox-PC, etc. A lot of games are now becoming console like on the PC, and everyone forgets about the different configurations of a PC, and never codes for the higher end computers.
PC games are just becoming more unified, as graphics chips slow down development. However, who can't miss the old days.....my last great CRPG on PC was Wizadry 8..[/rant]
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Old 02-08-04, 02:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
When was the last time you saw a $100 console ?
Ebay
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Old 02-08-04, 03:29 PM   #34
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I just want to add, no console could ever take me away from pc gaming, and I started my gaming on consoles
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Old 02-08-04, 04:31 PM   #35
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I just want to add, no console could ever take me away from pc gaming, and I started my gaming on consoles
Exactly, and I started out on an Atari 2600 with that lovely wood veneer.
But the ZX Spectrums, the Commodore 64's, the BBC Micros, The Atari 800's, Atari ST's, The Amigas, ALL made me stay with the computers.

I own all 3 consoles, and around 20+ Retro ones. To me, the 3 of today's consoles offer me an alternative, when I want a change.
Kind of like owning a Car, and a Motorcyle. I use the car all of the time, but use the bike when I fancy a nice change.

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lol.
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Old 02-08-04, 06:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr.FX
Pc high- rez heaven!
Huh, didn't I mention something about this in my other post? It seems many games in the next console generation will likely support HDTV modes. Even now, there's a few Xbox games that support 1080i (1920x1080 resolution), and a couple dozen that support 720p (1280x720). If the next generation of consoles do in fact support high resolution as a standard, you're going to have to change your reasoning for liking the PC so much.

BTW, you really, really have to stop coming off as a 12-year-old. Makes PC fanboys look bad.

Quote:
Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
When was the last time you saw a $100 console ?
Gamecube is now $100, and I just picked up a Dreamcast the other day for $15. Now while my PC is much more powerful than my Dreamcast, there's no way in hell that Shenmue running on a $15 console could ever be topped in cost effectivness by a computer. But of course, no console starts at that price. Now when was the last time you saw a DECENT videocard come out at $100?
Quote:
And the PC has speed,
Speed, yes. A computer can be as fast as you want it to be. But unfortunatly, it can also be as slow as the consumer wants, and many people still expect their 4 year old Emachine to play the latest games, for some reason. And because of that, games are held back. Didn't Valve say they were designing Half-life 2 to be playable on a 800 mhz computer with a DX6 card? How much prettier could they have made it if they designed the ENTIRE game for a high-end computer? People with old PCs are holding back graphics far more than any console, even a 4 year old one, could.

Quote:
NO development License costs,
Uhh, is DirectX free to lisence? I'm pretty sure MS charges for that, and pretty much everyone has to pay that fee nowadays (except for John Carmack)
Quote:
Far easier to develop for, no need to spend 3 years learning how the thing works,
Halo was "ported" to the Xbox in mere months, and still managed to be one of the best looking games of it's time. Max Payne 2 was ported to both the Xbox and the horribly inferior PS2 only 2 months after it's PC release, and many games have been developed simultaniously on both platforms with little to no added development time (Morrowind, DX:IW, even games like Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia).

It depends primarilly on how easy the console is to program for, though. The Sega Saturn was a pain to program, as is the PS2, and because of that it takes longer to get "good" graphics out of them. But consoles that have been easy to program on (PS1, Gamecube, Xbox) have had compairativly good graphics from the start. Rogue Leader took only 6 months to make, and even against todays high-end PC games looks VERY compairable. Doom 3 might be much better looking than anything on a console at the time, but how long have they been working on the game?
Quote:
Almost No limitations. If you hit a limit on a fixed platform, you're stuck with that limit.
No limitations, but people complain the hell out of a game if it doesn't run perfectly at the highest details on their brand shiney new Alienware computer. Remember what happened when games set their sights too high? *cough*Ultima9*cough*
Quote:
And finally, Cost of software. Something the console fanboys quite easily forget.
Uhh, that's not always the case. The console versions of Beyond Good and Evil dropped to $20 weeks before the PC version (all started at the same MSRP), and often times console games can be bought for much cheaper than PC games. I just picked up GTA Double Pack and Max Payne 2 for Xbox last week for $60, yet if I bought the exact same games on PC, they would've cost me $100 altogeather. And strangely, I almost never see PC games on clearence at most gaming stores (though Gamestop does have a decent collection of $10 and under games in their value bin). But it depends on the game, they don't all follow the same rules for price (though there are certainly cases of the PC version being $10 cheaper at release).

Anyway, that's my couple dozen cents. Usually in these type of discussions I'll play devil's advocate since I usually just stick up for the underdog (had you all been saying how crappy PC gaming is, I would've stuck up for the PC). However, many people forget that some of the things advertised about the upcoming Windows Longhorn makes it more console-like. You may soon be "gaming on a console" without even realizing it.
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