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Old 02-08-04, 07:21 PM   #37
D.K.Tronics
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Even now, there's a few Xbox games that support 1080i (1920x1080 resolution), and a couple dozen that support 720p (1280x720). If the next generation of consoles do in fact support high resolution as a standard, you're going to have to change your reasoning for liking the PC so much.
Name ONE single game thats actually playble at that res.
And there isn't one single HDTV that comes close to a PC monitor in the same price bracket. And how many people outside of the US, actually OWN a HDTV ? I don't know anyone.

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Now when was the last time you saw a DECENT videocard come out at $100?
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no console starts at that price
No videocard starts at that price. See, these games are fun.

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Uhh, is DirectX free to lisence? I'm pretty sure MS charges for that, and pretty much everyone has to pay that fee nowadays
Nope. And I'm pretty sure it's never been. Got a link ?

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Uhh, that's not always the case. The console versions of Beyond Good and Evil dropped to $20 weeks before the PC version (all started at the same MSRP), and often times console games can be bought for much cheaper than PC games. I just picked up GTA Double Pack and Max Payne 2 for Xbox last week for $60, yet if I bought the exact same games on PC, they would've cost me $100 altogeather. And strangely, I almost never see PC games on clearence at most gaming stores (though Gamestop does have a decent collection of $10 and under games in their value bin). But it depends on the game, they don't all follow the same rules for price (though there are certainly cases of the PC version being $10 cheaper at release).
Sorry, but thats complete bull. Perhaps where you come from, maybe.
Console games make the money for MS, Nintendo, and Sony. The hardware doesn't. Over here, Consoles games average around 39. Pc games around 29. I think the maths speak for themselves.
Give a month or two, and those PC games are now 15. Half what they used to be. I rarely see that on console, unless it's second-hand.
PC games will always be cheaper, Fact.

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Halo was "ported" to the Xbox in mere months, and still managed to be one of the best looking games of it's time
And was released, how many years ago ?
And the Xbox STILL doesn't have a title to match it. And you were saying about 4 year old PC's holding the PC back, well whats holding back the Xbox ?

As DX9 becomes the standard, The PC will start to see more impressive games that start to use the tech.
Doom3
Half-Life 2
Far Cry
STALKER
All have shown how much better PC games are now looking, than ANY console title.
And when the MOD community gets a hold of those titles, then it will really show why the PC still reigns supreme.
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Old 02-08-04, 08:11 PM   #38
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Name ONE single game thats actually playble at that res.
Which res? If you're talking 720p, then almost all of them run fine on the Xbox, such as Tony Hawk 4 and Sphinx. If you're talking 1080i, then I think Dragon's Lair 3d runs alright, with Syberia being very acceptable as well. Enter the Matrix runs pretty crappy, though.

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No videocard starts at that price. See, these games are fun.
Yeah, that was my point. Neither PC gaming hardware nor console gaming hardware starts cheap. But both are coming down in price, remember how consoles releasing for $200 was unheard of? Then again, Voodoo 1s didn't debut for anywhere near as much as the high-end graphic cards of today.

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Nope. And I'm pretty sure it's never been. Got a link ?
Really? I thought I heard MS charged extra for DX SDKs. At least, I remember that when companies were talking about developing for Xbox that the "cost of DirectX lisencing was included with the Xbox SDK" or something like that. Could be wrong though, been a while since I've read anything about the cost of console lisencing.

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Sorry, but thats complete bull. Perhaps where you come from, maybe.
Console games make the money for MS, Nintendo, and Sony. The hardware doesn't. Over here, Consoles games average around 39. Pc games around 29. I think the maths speak for themselves.
Give a month or two, and those PC games are now 15. Half what they used to be. I rarely see that on console, unless it's second-hand.
PC games will always be cheaper, Fact.
Huh, it's different over here then. I've seen quite a few PC games retail for $39.99 while the console versions retail for $49.99, but I've seen many cases where they cost the same (Max Payne 2, DX:IW, Morrowind, etc), and in some the console version is cheaper. Not that it really makes a big difference to me though, I almost always wait to buy games until they get cheap, and I've gotten a lot of good console games for $10 or less. Strangely I see a lot of PC games sell out before they reach the under-$10 clearence price, aside from the aformentioned Gamestop value bin.

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And was released, how many years ago ?
And the Xbox STILL doesn't have a title to match it. And you were saying about 4 year old PC's holding the PC back, well whats holding back the Xbox ?
Oh, I certainly wouldn't say that nothing has matched it since then. Splinter Cell, Panzer Dragoon Orta, hell even Brute Force and Deus Ex: IW have shown graphics that in most areas are far superior to Halo. And of course, Halo 2 will put up a good match, even against Doom 3. Actually, I just remembered: Wreckless is probably one of the most amazing looking games I've ever seen. Even on PC it's hard to find a match for a game that has fully reflective cars and full pixel shading effects. And as I mentioned, Rogue Leader's graphics were amazing for it's time, and even today I think the only game that really looks better on that scale is Rogue Leader 2. I would honestly like to see a PC game that matches up to the graphics in Rogue Leader 2, which is running on a $100 console.

Now lets turn it around: what PC game released today can match the graphics that were in the Imperium Galactica 3 demo released almost 2 years ago? Certainly not Homeworld 2, and to be honest the IG3 demo still uses effects that are better than many games that were released in the last couple months. Or even Unreal 2 for that matter, which probably won't have an equal until UT2004 is released.

And nothing is holding the Xbox back from achieving more, aside from developers willing to spend more time on graphics. But one thing to note is that on consoles there's less of an industry for spending years on a game's engine, so usually every game has it's own engine, which will invariably look worse than an engine designed specificly to look pretty. Where would PC gaming be today without engines like Quake and Unreal? And similarly, what if a company was as dedicated to making pretty graphics on consoles as ID and Crytek are on PC?

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As DX9 becomes the standard, The PC will start to see more impressive games that start to use the tech.
Doom3
Half-Life 2
Far Cry
STALKER
All have shown how much better PC games are now looking, than ANY console title.
Psst, try using games that are actually OUT for compairision

Yes, DX9 will eventually become the standard, just as DX8 did, but if you don't remember, very few games even used DX8 until 2 years after the Xbox was out, and now it looks that the Xbox 2 will release around the same time as DX10/Longhorn is. For every single console generation, there's about 2 PC generations. Obviously, that leaves PCs free to overtake consoles in graphics, but by the time it becomes standard a new console comes out that wipes the floor with all of them. I remember back in early 1999, PC gamers were bragging about how amazing games like Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 looked, and then in September the Dreamcast was released which was far more advanced than anything seen on PC, and it cost less than a good videocard for the PC cost. How long did it even take for bump-mapping to become standard in PC games? Hell, most current games STILL don't use bump-mapping, sad as it may be.

And going back to amazing looking games for a $100 console, I actually think Resident Evil 4 looks suprisingly compairable to Doom 3. I'm sure it uses more "tricks" than Doom 3, but you gotta admit that it's impressive that such a small and inexpensive console can pump out graphics compairible to a high-end PC. Maybe not equal, but certainly not out of it's league.
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Old 02-08-04, 09:13 PM   #39
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Originally posted by Ninja Prime
You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, there will be a point when you can't create better physics, you already have real-life physics, you can't create better graphics, you already have real-life graphics, etc.

What will a faster PC have over a $100 console then? Nothing really. From a developers stand point the PC will be virtually dead.
Uhmm,..there are many games that simply do not play well on consoles. Someone brought up flight sims. Good example.

I do not own a console and if that is the only way I could play a computer game, then I simply would not play. I tried using those damn console controllers and that was just terrible. No fun at all.
I don't care how cheap the console is. If the input devices are relegated to the current stuff, then it is a $100 dollar anchor for me.
If I cannot connect a high resolution digital monitor to the thing and not have to use my families television, then it is still an anchor. If I cannot update/patch/enhance my games, then it is still an anchor.
If I cannot chat to people playing online, then it is an anchor.

EDIT: The DirectX SDK is free. There are no license fees to be paid to MS for using it to develope games. Anyone can download the DirectX SDK and use it.
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Old 02-08-04, 10:02 PM   #40
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Consoles are teh best. You all are fools. You also think nVidia actualy makes good product too. What a bunch of **** tards. Get a frikin clue ass munchers.
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Old 02-08-04, 10:22 PM   #41
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I propose a moratorium on all console vs. PC discussion until further notice. It's the same damn tired old arguements over and over and over again.

My piece on this matter is this - there are fun games to play on both types of systems. I have an Xbox and PC and can easily divide my time between both.

Those of you who exclusively game on the PC, you're missing out on the fun that consoles can be. Same goes for console only people.
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Old 02-09-04, 01:00 AM   #42
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Originally posted by saturnotaku
I propose a moratorium on all console vs. PC discussion until further notice. It's the same damn tired old arguements over and over and over again.

My piece on this matter is this - there are fun games to play on both types of systems. I have an Xbox and PC and can easily divide my time between both.

Those of you who exclusively game on the PC, you're missing out on the fun that consoles can be. Same goes for console only people.
It is weak kneed people such as your self who sit on the fence and and try to give the world one great big sloppy hug. Well not this console fanboy. I think you are just a trouble maker. Either you are with the console fanboys or you are with the "terrorists".

CAN YOU FEEL ME,......PUNK!?

YOU, with your purple hair and your over-sized anime eyes. OHHH look at me! I'm a cartoon with boobs way out of porportion to my body size.

/dances around with a tutu and a carp in his pants.
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Old 02-09-04, 01:18 AM   #43
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Originally posted by UDawg


/dances around with a tutu and a carp in his pants.
Right UDawg I am gonna report you to the SPCA.....for abusing that poor carp in your pants. Talk about CRUELTY TO ANIMALS!!!!
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Old 02-09-04, 01:24 AM   #44
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Originally posted by MUYA
Right UDawg I am gonna report you to the SPCA.....for abusing that poor carp in your pants. Talk about CRUELTY TO ANIMALS!!!!
Hey being single right now it is the only way to get that fishy smell.
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Old 02-09-04, 01:32 AM   #45
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Originally posted by UDawg
Hey being single right now it is the only way to get that fishy smell.
Thats still cruelty man!


/em chants

Save the Carp

Save the Carp

.......
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Old 02-09-04, 02:20 AM   #46
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- random movie reference
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Old 02-09-04, 02:55 AM   #47
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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
Actually, it's YOU thats misunderstanding everything.

We are years, and years, and years, away from real-life graphics, and to some extent, physics.
There are far too many variables to factor in, before you even come close to real-life. Even a brick wall, would be impossible to render perfectly. Every brick is different, and the closer you get, the more detail you see.

And by the time they eventually get just close to real-life, there will be something completely different to play games on. So it's all a mute point.
According to experts that know more than you or me, we are only 7-8 years away from that point. That doesn't even matter in itself, as look how far we go with each step now... Doom3, HL2, FarCry, STALKERS, are said to be nearly "real-life" to some people. The next gen of consoles will put that which many believe to be "real-life" to shame. How much more real do we need? Will people care of the difference between the graphics from Final Fantasy: Spirits Within style graphics in real-time compared to something slightly better? Most people won't be able to tell the difference, and the few who can won't care.

As for "something completely different" what will that be in the next 7-8 years? How do you know? 3-d monitors maybe? That doesn't change anything. 3-d stereoscopic glasses? That still doesn't change anything. What is going to take over that we will play differently in that time? Maybe games will go out of style altogether, but I doubt it... There won't be anything big and impressive enough invented in the next 10 years to take over gaming as it is today. You're not going to have holodecks in 10 years.

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Originally posted by GlowStick

Windows 95 higher resolution, more color depth
Windows 98 "
winders 2000 " " multiple monitors 2 +
winders XP " " higher resoltuion icons so on so on etc 'interactive background' 'voice recoginiton'
What does WinXP have over Win95 that the average person knows about? Not much. That's what I'm talking about. XP is a full generation newer than Win2000, but I use Win2000 because there is nothing really new that is useful in XP. Games will become the same way sooner or later. A generation of games won't need the latest PC hardware to look great. The next gen won't have enough features to even bother buying it over the last one, ala XP.

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Originally posted by D.K.Tronics
When was the last time you saw a $100 console ?
It's called Gamecube.

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And the PC has speed,
Err... ok does this have some kind of point?

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NO development License costs
If they cared about this then why are there far more console developers and more big companies making console games? Why do developers make more money on console games?

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Far easier to develop for, no need to spend 3 years learning how the thing works
You have no idea what your are talking about. Maybe if you're using PS2(because it sucks), but most consoles are far easier than PC development, you have a solid platform, not 1,000 different systems you need to make adjustments for.

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Almost No limitations. If you hit a limit on a fixed platform, you're stuck with that limit.
Limits don't matter when you have more power than you'll ever need to make a game anyway that's my point.

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No region locks, I can play a PC game from any region, with only language permitting
... You're not seriously saying thats a reason PC will stay forever right? Remember a little thing called the VHS? Killed by the mighty region locked DVD...

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And finally, Cost of software. Something the console fanboys quite easily forget.
They cost the same. In fact, recently the PC games I bought out weighed the most recent console games I've bought.

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Name ONE single game thats actually playble at that res.
Good thing the US is switching to all digital in 2006, meaning everyone will need a digital TV, and HD will become common. By the next next gen everyone will have it. 1920x1080 on your TV.

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Originally posted my Skuzzy
Uhmm,..there are many games that simply do not play well on consoles. Someone brought up flight sims. Good example.
Most consoles already have mice and keyboards today, whos to say they won't be even more common in the future? Whos to say X-box3 won't come with a mouse and keyboard instead of a controller? Haven't you seen the trend of more PC-like consoles?
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Old 02-09-04, 02:56 AM   #48
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Originally posted by UDawg
Consoles are teh best. You all are fools. You also think nVidia actualy makes good product too. What a bunch of **** tards. Get a frikin clue ass munchers.
Damn fx! Oh wait thats Udawg
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