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Old 02-09-04, 10:25 PM   #73
Chalnoth
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
Look at where we are now. Look at Doom3 and HL2 compared to a game like UT or Q3, and games that are only 2-3 years old. It's a quantum leap.
Believe me. There is a long way to go, particularly in the lighting. If you've ever seen a comparison between, say, ray tracing (which is close to DOOM3-style rendering) and global illumination, well, there is no comparison.

From where I'm sitting, each new iteration of technology just makes it more obvious how far we have yet to go before things will look truly good.

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It's expected that the R500/NV50 generation of GPU's will be able to do FF:SW graphics in real-time.
Heh. No.

Remember that beyond the hardware, the software really needs to catch up, and it will be a very long time before characters can move believably in an interactive, dynamic scenario.
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Old 02-10-04, 09:04 AM   #74
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Heh. No.

Remember that beyond the hardware, the software really needs to catch up, and it will be a very long time before characters can move believably in an interactive, dynamic scenario.
A Geforce 3 system did FF:SW at 1/10th detail running at like 6 fps years ago. Today, NV35 could probably do it at 30 fps. NV40 probably could do it at 30 fps and 1/4 detail. NV55, which is still technically NV50 generation, could probably do it at full detail in real-time. That's on a PC, and we all know you can do much more with the same hardware on a console. X-box2 is going to have a R500 chip in it, on 65nm silicon, probably something custom similar to the way the x-box is halfway between NV20-NV25. X-box2 and PS3 and Gameshpere will all likely be capable of graphics very close to FF:SW in games.
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Old 02-10-04, 11:56 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
X-box2 and PS3 and Gameshpere will all likely be capable of graphics very close to FF:SW in games.
First, I'm not sure that's going to be the case. But also, it's going to be up to the developers to take full advantage of the respective console hardware. If we get multi-console releases like we've been getting (NFS: Hot Pursuit 2, Enter the Matrix just to name a couple) there are going to be very few games which will start to look like FF. Those will probably be limited to exclusive titles and those are starting to get fewer and further between.

I'm just trying to picture in my mind a DOA game on the Xbox 2.
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Old 02-10-04, 12:30 PM   #76
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I hope you guys know its not the consoles that will be inferior to PC's...its the TV's, which cannot compare to Monitors to an extent. The technology needs to be improved in TV's to be as vivid as a good monitor. If you ask me investing so much in the grfx chip is a waste when most T.V's wont even be able to take advantage of it as would a monitor. What Sony and MS needs to do is develope there consoles with the pc in mind so they can connect to a monitor with no fuss and also provide keyboard and mouse compatabilty like the Dreamcast did, a console way before its time. Everything these guys are now doing Sega did you could even surf the net on that thing.
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Old 02-10-04, 02:03 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ninja Prime
A Geforce 3 system did FF:SW at 1/10th detail running at like 6 fps years ago.
That's pretty far off, it was actually running at a full 30 FPS on a 1.4 ghz computer with a Geforce 3 card in it, and detail was very high (hard to say if it was "1/10th" or not, the hair and lighting wasn't as good, but the character models looked almost exactly the same as they did in the movie). Check out Gamespot's article of it, they have a video of the demo running on a computer at 30 fps back in 2001.

And the ONLY thing I could see that would be very difficult for current hardware to replicate is the lighting, particularly the radiosity. There is simply no way that any hardware in the next couple years will be able to do real-time radiosity on every object, which will make things look a bit unrealistic. However, there are certainly ways to fake it, as Half-life 2 has done. Remember, the entire act of rendering a picture is done in a process nothing like real life (where we only see the light REFLECTING off of a surface, not the surface itself), but technology gets more and more advanced we can mimic that process better. We'll never reach a state of totally real 3d rendered graphics, but we aren't far from making it look so good that you can't tell the difference between a CG rendered image and real life.
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Old 02-10-04, 03:39 PM   #78
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Phong lighting is not too far away...maybe 3 to 4 years away.

Right now most developers cheat a lot to keep from having to do lighting as it is very expensive. Use it when you have to , but only when you have to.
Multiple light sources and Phong lighting is probably 5 to 8 years away.
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Old 02-10-04, 04:18 PM   #79
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Originally posted by S.I.N
Everything these guys are now doing Sega did you could even surf the net on that thing.
And Sega lost $800 million on the Dreamcast. It just didn't work, which is a shame because I personally really liked the DC. I still find time to play Soul Caliber and Shenmue on occasion.
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Old 02-10-04, 04:51 PM   #80
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/off-topic

My contribution to this thread: I like bananas.

Good day, gentlemen.

/on-topic

This argument will come up every time there's a new console, won't it?

Bottom line is that it's about the software, not about the hardware. As consoles have proven, you can do some amazing stuff with limited hardware. As PCs have proven, even if you have the greatest hardware in the world, if the software doesn't take advantage of it you're SOL.

In the future, both PCs and consoles will be replaced by something else; probably virtual and probably mobile. So meh.
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Old 02-10-04, 04:57 PM   #81
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Everyone knows they will be replaced with an etch-a-sketch!
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Old 02-10-04, 04:59 PM   #82
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PC wil stay forever for its versatility and billions of ppl out there that will be have a multi purpose/upgradeable machine no matter what kind o hardware is in it...

PC and together with expanding userbase will - never -die.

PC -such as a device that can be upgradeable and software can be freely written for it... unless governments ban it- than it would be like alchohol during prohibition = very sought after item
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Old 02-10-04, 05:15 PM   #83
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I believe the market for software, including games, will be there as long as the PC exists.

There are times when stupid things happen: like MS deciding Halo 2 should be xbox only even though we all know there is a market for a port and they would make a profit. But, we know why MS did this and we also know that they probably won't be successful with luring *everyone* over to the xbox just because of this game. Thank God.
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Old 02-12-04, 02:12 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Edge
That's pretty far off, it was actually running at a full 30 FPS on a 1.4 ghz computer with a Geforce 3 card in it, and detail was very high (hard to say if it was "1/10th" or not, the hair and lighting wasn't as good, but the character models looked almost exactly the same as they did in the movie). Check out Gamespot's article of it, they have a video of the demo running on a computer at 30 fps back in 2001.

And the ONLY thing I could see that would be very difficult for current hardware to replicate is the lighting, particularly the radiosity. There is simply no way that any hardware in the next couple years will be able to do real-time radiosity on every object, which will make things look a bit unrealistic.
What he said.

Doing Final Fantasy in real time requires more than just high poly counts and texture resolutions. The Final Fantasy nVidia demo didn't do "Real" lighting. I'm talking about when you shine a light on a wall, and some of the light reflects off it to shine on the floor, which reflects some of it up onto the ceiling etc etc. The lights also need to fall off over distance and cast soft shadows. Real lighting is very math intensive and probably accounts for 99% of the time it takes to render a movie like Final Fantasy, and nVidia skipped that bit for their demo.

IMO even CGI scenes from old movies like Tron and The Last Starfighter had better lighting than todays games. Games rely on cheats like light maps to give the illusion of a properly lit scene (which look great in screenshots), but once you interact with environment it still looks fake. The Doom 3 engine is a very first step in the right direction, but is only maybe 1/10th of the way there.

If graphics cards continue to evolve at their current rate (each generation card is only about 50% faster than the previous one) we will all be long dead before we see Final Fantasy trully rendered in real time.
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