DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display!

Petr Stehlik · 03-09-04, 02:34 PM

GF4 MX 440, DVI + TVout. Connected DFP to DVI and TV to TVout. Tried both TwinView and the "Multiple X Screens on one card" but no matter what I do the TV is always the primary display and the DVI is the secondary.

Obvious problems caused by that include X thinking that 800x600 is the physical resolution and 1280x1024 is just the virtual one (in case of TwinView) or booting my usual X11 setup on the TV output (including GDM login screen) and having empty X11 screen on the DVI DFP.

This is sooo annoying. Why the TV has a higher priority than the DVI? It must be a software bug anyway since when I was using CRT on the DVI connector it worked properly (TwinView).

Please help me configuring it so that DVI DFP is the primary display, 1280x1024 is the primary real physical resolution and TVout is just a 800x600 Clone of that, or even a separate X screen, but _SECONDARY_ since I use it for xine only.

Thanks.

Petr

mickep76 · 04-27-04, 10:48 AM

I have the same problem and I can't use CRT since that cable have to little bandwith... Right now i solve this by simply removing the TV connection when I'm not using it a very low tech. workaround ;-)

I hope they implement a new feature allowing you to set the primary display...

Regards
Michael P

ThwartedEfforts · 05-08-04, 02:23 AM

I'm having the same problem, but with DFP and CRT. The docs seem to imply that the ordering of the ConnectedMonitors setting might do something here, but doesn't actually sayanything to that effect (although I find the example of "ConnectedMonitors "CRT, CRT"" to be confusing, since the rest of the docs seem to assume, at the most, one of each kind of connection (DFP, TV, CRT). There is no option to specify which connection is the "secondary" one with Twinview -- I think it's using the wrong timings (which just so happen to work anyway); before I starting trying to get multiple screens/twinview working, I have X configured to use a single DFP display. So I went about configuring the "secondary" display to my CRT monitor. But it seems that I was actually specifying the monitor modes for the DFP I already had working.

I really want my better display, the 21" DFP, to be X's screen 0, and my crappy, older 19" CRT to be Screen 1. I personally think it would make more sense to have DFP take priority, then CRT, then TV, but the ideal method would be being able to specify the connection to use for each setting (for twinview, a SecondaryMonitorConnection option, maybe?, or even better a ConnectedTo option in the Device section, for the mulitple card setup).

ThwartedEfforts · 05-08-04, 02:28 AM

Heh, it seemed so crazy to me that DFP wasn't the top priority, that I actually took the card out of the machine to see if there was a jumper or a DIP switch I could frob to change the priority.

bednar · 05-31-04, 05:20 PM

The problem is really BIG. And not only for people like my, which want to have gdm or other login screen on DVI instead of TV (used only for watching movies). It is problem for power users with DVI and CRT plugged simultaneously. For example, one want to have 3D modeler on DVI with sharp lines and secondary CRT for OpenGL preview of the 3D model.

I posted about this problem more than half year ago and somebody replied that it is hardware problem

It is nonsense while same gfx card under windows can use DVI as primary nad TV as secondary screen.

Bednar

aritger · 06-03-04, 01:17 AM

I think the notion of "primary" versus "secondary" display doesn't
really make sense. In general, I think the tasks that you want to
accomplish are:

- specify on which display device you want what modes
- specify the HorizSync and VertRefresh for each display device
- position the two display devices relative to each other

Granted, it is very cumbersome to configure this today. FWIW, in the
next driver release (due out soon), the TwinView configuration options
accept additional syntax that should make this slightly easier. I'll
give examples of the extended syntax below.

Our long term goal is to provide a nice gui tool to make configuring
TwinView as simple as possible.

__

Petr: for your configuration of a TV + DFP, your configuration
might look something like this:

(put hsync and vrefresh for the TV in your monitor section)

Option "TwinView"
Option "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "<hsync for the DFP>"
Option "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "<vrefresh for the DFP"
Option "MetaModes" "800x600 @ 1280x1024 +0+0, 1280x1024 +0+0"

The above would set your TV to 800x600, your DFP to 1280x1024.
It would put the two in clone mode, and the TV would pan over the
1280x1024 desktop.

With the next driver release, you could have something like:

Option "TwinView"
Option "HorizSync" "DFP: <hsync for dfp>, TV: <hsync for tv>"
Option "VertRefresh" "DFP: <vrefresh for dfp>, TV: <vrefresh for tv>"
Option "MetaModes" "DFP: 1280x1024 +0+0, TV: 800x600 @ 1280x1024 +0+0"

Still not trivial, but I hope that the ability to label MetaMode
et al entries with a display device name will make things a little
more clear.

__

ThwartedEfforts: if you want to have two separate X screens, with
the DFP on screen 0 and the CRT on screen 1, you could do something like:

Section "ServerLayout"
...
Screen 0 "Screen0"
Screen 1 "Screen1" leftOf "Screen0"
...
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "nvidia0"
Driver "nvidia"
BusID "<your bus id>"
Screen 0
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "nvidia1"
Driver "nvidia"
BusId "<your bus id>"
Screen 1
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "nvidia0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "ConnectedMonitor" "DFP"
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes <dfp modes>
EndSubsection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen1"
Device "nvidia1"
Monitor "Monitor1"
DefaultDepth 24
Option "ConnectedMonitor" "CRT"
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes <crt modes>
EndSubsection
EndSection

I agree that the use of the ConnectedMonitor option like that is
non-intuitive. Again, hopefully a gui to configure these things
in the future would help alleviate the confusion.

___

bednar: I'm not sure I understand your concerns. If you have
configured TwinView, where within the X screen the gdm login shows up
seems like a gdm configuration issue. As far as running a 3d modeler
on one display device and an OpenGL preview window on another display
device, what prevents you from doing this today? Is your complaint
just the positioning of the DFP relative to the CRT? If so, then
please look at the TwinViewOrientation option, or the offsets within
the MetaMode (see the README for details). If your complaint is about
something different, please let me know.

Thanks.

bednar · 06-03-04, 03:50 AM

Andy,

my concern was to point the problem, unknown since today for Nvidia as I think, and to show how the problem could be seen by some people (home users and professionals). Thank You very much for reply. I hope It resolves some problems.

I'm not sure if I understand the solution of having gdm login screen on proper device. I was trying to set up following configuration: 800x600 TV (screen 1) left of 1280x1024 DFP (screen 0) in Twin View mode (I prefere the TvienView orver the Dual Head as I can move windows between screens, ofcourse when the Xinerama works properly). I don't remember if I got TV screen number 0 or 1. I think I got screen 0 on TV and this was cause of having gdm on TV. I can't check it know because I have no NVidia gfx card now, but when the problem will be resolved I'll switch to NV. Here is my saved configuration from the day I was testing NVidia card.

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Sony"
VendorName "Sony"
ModelName "X72"
HorizSync 20-65
VertRefresh 60
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "Device1"
VendorName "nvidia"
Driver "nvidia"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0"

Option "NoDDC" "no"
Option "TwinView" "yes"
Option "TVStandard" "PAL-B"
Option "TVOutFormat" "Svideo"
Option "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "30-70"
Option "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "60"
Option "TwinViewOrientation" "RightOf"
Option "MetaModes" "800x600 @800x600, 1280x1024 @1280x1024"
Option "ConnectedMonitor" "dfp"
Option "ConnectedMonitor" "tv"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen1"
Device "Device1"
Monitor "Sony"
DefaultColorDepth 24
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24
EndSubsection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "AGPTwinView"
Screen "Screen1"
InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

I understand that I had to treat DFP as second monitor, at least in XF86Config-4. But I wonder how the Xserver and Xinerama extension (is the Xinerama build in NV driver????) will treat devices order. It is if X put gdm on DFP?

sjgustafson · 06-21-04, 05:54 PM

I have a flight sim application that I need to use both the VGA and DVI outputs on a series 5950 video carsd modified for genlock by RPA Electronics. I want to clone the DVI output to the VGA. I can get clone mode working correctly, but it causes a problem in my set up. Currently we have 4 1280x1024 inputs to a Laser Projector that produces a seamless 5120x1024 output (later to be upgraded to 5120x4096). The projector requires genlocked input. The software must also make use of genlock to make sure each of the 4 (the upgrade will use 16) PCs rendering the scene, the database server, and the system master stay synchronized so that they start their processing of the data at the same time. This is to prevent shearing in the scene. Now the problem I have is that when I set it up for clone mode, I am getting shearing in the scene. This does not occur when DVI only mode is used. The software is making use of signals tied to the genlock, which seems to be tied to the primary display, which seems to be hard coded to the VGA in the driver, in order to make sure the PCs stay synchronized. We need to have the DVI as the primary and we would like the VGA as the secondary in order to stop the shear. The purpose for the VGA output is that we need to be able to monitor the PC output separately, as an operator cannot be in the ****pit when the system is fully operational. We do not need to worry about the individual VGA scene or any lag that it may have with regards to any of the VGA scenes, as it will be selected through a KVM and only one of the VGA outputs will be seen at a time. In our case we can not just simply switch which monitor things will appear on.

trueg · 07-13-04, 05:01 AM

The setup with two X-Screens as proposed does not work here. The only thing that works is CRT as display 0 (0:0) and TFT as display 1 (0:1). Regardless of the Screen setting in the device sections the screen section I specify as 0 in the ServerLayout is always used as the one for the CRT. When I add ConnectedMonitor Options the CRT stops working and I only get the first display on my TFT.
This is my setup on a FX 5200. What am I doing wrong or is it really not possible (in windows it all works without any problems...)

Code:

...all the other stuff...

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier  "Photon19vision Digital"
    HorizSync   30-71
    VertRefresh 56-75
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier  "Sun"
    HorizSync   30-84
    VertRefresh 48-160
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier  "NVIDIA0"
    Driver      "nvidia"
    BusID       "PCI:1:0:0"
    Screen      0
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier  "NVIDIA1"
    Driver      "nvidia"
    BusID       "PCI:1:0:0"
    Screen      1
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier  "Screen TFT"
    Device      "NVIDIA0"
    Monitor     "Photon19vision Digital"
    Option      "ConnectedMonitor"      "DFP"
    DefaultDepth 24
    Subsection "Display"
        Depth       16
        Modes       "1280x1024@60"
    EndSubsection
    Subsection "Display"
        Depth       24
        Modes       "1280x1024@60"
    EndSubsection
EndSection
Section "Screen"
    Identifier  "Screen Sun"
    Device      "NVIDIA1"
    Monitor     "Sun"
    Option      "ConnectedMonitor"      "CRT"
    DefaultDepth 24
    Subsection "Display"
        Depth       16
        Modes       "1024x768"
    EndSubsection
    Subsection "Display"
        Depth       24
        Modes       "1024x768"
    EndSubsection
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier  "Dual Head Layout"
    Screen      0 "Screen TFT"
    Screen      1 "Screen Sun" rightof "Screen TFT"
    InputDevice "Mouse1"        "CorePointer"
    InputDevice "Keyboard1"     "CoreKeyboard"
EndSection

jap · 10-08-04, 12:41 PM

I spent a few frustrating days configuring the card for DVI and TV output.
Then I realized that no matter what I do, the TV is always the first, and the DVI is always the second monitor (ConnectedMonitor doesn't specify order, only devices to initialize).

Ok, but then Xinerama will get told that the first device is a TV, so the login screen and new windows will get opened on the TV, not on the DVI...

This is really annoying and I did not yet find out how to resolve it.

chareos · 10-11-04, 10:02 AM

The same, here !

Also problem extends to OpenGL games (Doom3, UT2004)

udippel · 10-23-04, 11:16 AM

So sad !
Can't possibly believe that it is impossible to DFP first.
GDM can be moved, yes, but the taskbar in XFCE is stuck to the first display.
Plus Xine crashes when I run Twinview (at least with TV-0 as first).

For laptops, at least, there is no reason to start with TV !

I can only hope that NVIDIA is going to correct this unfortunate omission.

03-09-04, 02:34 PM	#1
Petr Stehlik Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 9	DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! GF4 MX 440, DVI + TVout. Connected DFP to DVI and TV to TVout. Tried both TwinView and the "Multiple X Screens on one card" but no matter what I do the TV is always the primary display and the DVI is the secondary. Obvious problems caused by that include X thinking that 800x600 is the physical resolution and 1280x1024 is just the virtual one (in case of TwinView) or booting my usual X11 setup on the TV output (including GDM login screen) and having empty X11 screen on the DVI DFP. This is sooo annoying. Why the TV has a higher priority than the DVI? It must be a software bug anyway since when I was using CRT on the DVI connector it worked properly (TwinView). Please help me configuring it so that DVI DFP is the primary display, 1280x1024 is the primary real physical resolution and TVout is just a 800x600 Clone of that, or even a separate X screen, but _SECONDARY_ since I use it for xine only. Thanks. Petr

04-27-04, 10:48 AM	#2
mickep76 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! I have the same problem and I can't use CRT since that cable have to little bandwith... Right now i solve this by simply removing the TV connection when I'm not using it a very low tech. workaround ;-) I hope they implement a new feature allowing you to set the primary display... Regards Michael P

05-08-04, 02:23 AM	#3
ThwartedEfforts Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! I'm having the same problem, but with DFP and CRT. The docs seem to imply that the ordering of the ConnectedMonitors setting might do something here, but doesn't actually sayanything to that effect (although I find the example of "ConnectedMonitors "CRT, CRT"" to be confusing, since the rest of the docs seem to assume, at the most, one of each kind of connection (DFP, TV, CRT). There is no option to specify which connection is the "secondary" one with Twinview -- I think it's using the wrong timings (which just so happen to work anyway); before I starting trying to get multiple screens/twinview working, I have X configured to use a single DFP display. So I went about configuring the "secondary" display to my CRT monitor. But it seems that I was actually specifying the monitor modes for the DFP I already had working. I really want my better display, the 21" DFP, to be X's screen 0, and my crappy, older 19" CRT to be Screen 1. I personally think it would make more sense to have DFP take priority, then CRT, then TV, but the ideal method would be being able to specify the connection to use for each setting (for twinview, a SecondaryMonitorConnection option, maybe?, or even better a ConnectedTo option in the Device section, for the mulitple card setup).

05-08-04, 02:28 AM	#4
ThwartedEfforts Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 4	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! Heh, it seemed so crazy to me that DFP wasn't the top priority, that I actually took the card out of the machine to see if there was a jumper or a DIP switch I could frob to change the priority.

05-31-04, 05:20 PM	#5
bednar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 34	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! The problem is really BIG. And not only for people like my, which want to have gdm or other login screen on DVI instead of TV (used only for watching movies). It is problem for power users with DVI and CRT plugged simultaneously. For example, one want to have 3D modeler on DVI with sharp lines and secondary CRT for OpenGL preview of the 3D model. I posted about this problem more than half year ago and somebody replied that it is hardware problem It is nonsense while same gfx card under windows can use DVI as primary nad TV as secondary screen. Bednar

06-03-04, 01:17 AM	#6
aritger NVIDIA Corporation Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 53	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! I think the notion of "primary" versus "secondary" display doesn't really make sense. In general, I think the tasks that you want to accomplish are: - specify on which display device you want what modes - specify the HorizSync and VertRefresh for each display device - position the two display devices relative to each other Granted, it is very cumbersome to configure this today. FWIW, in the next driver release (due out soon), the TwinView configuration options accept additional syntax that should make this slightly easier. I'll give examples of the extended syntax below. Our long term goal is to provide a nice gui tool to make configuring TwinView as simple as possible. __ Petr: for your configuration of a TV + DFP, your configuration might look something like this: (put hsync and vrefresh for the TV in your monitor section) Option "TwinView" Option "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "<hsync for the DFP>" Option "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "<vrefresh for the DFP" Option "MetaModes" "800x600 @ 1280x1024 +0+0, 1280x1024 +0+0" The above would set your TV to 800x600, your DFP to 1280x1024. It would put the two in clone mode, and the TV would pan over the 1280x1024 desktop. With the next driver release, you could have something like: Option "TwinView" Option "HorizSync" "DFP: <hsync for dfp>, TV: <hsync for tv>" Option "VertRefresh" "DFP: <vrefresh for dfp>, TV: <vrefresh for tv>" Option "MetaModes" "DFP: 1280x1024 +0+0, TV: 800x600 @ 1280x1024 +0+0" Still not trivial, but I hope that the ability to label MetaMode et al entries with a display device name will make things a little more clear. __ ThwartedEfforts: if you want to have two separate X screens, with the DFP on screen 0 and the CRT on screen 1, you could do something like: Section "ServerLayout" ... Screen 0 "Screen0" Screen 1 "Screen1" leftOf "Screen0" ... EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "nvidia0" Driver "nvidia" BusID "<your bus id>" Screen 0 EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "nvidia1" Driver "nvidia" BusId "<your bus id>" Screen 1 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "nvidia0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 Option "ConnectedMonitor" "DFP" Subsection "Display" Depth 24 Modes <dfp modes> EndSubsection EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "nvidia1" Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 24 Option "ConnectedMonitor" "CRT" Subsection "Display" Depth 24 Modes <crt modes> EndSubsection EndSection I agree that the use of the ConnectedMonitor option like that is non-intuitive. Again, hopefully a gui to configure these things in the future would help alleviate the confusion. ___ bednar: I'm not sure I understand your concerns. If you have configured TwinView, where within the X screen the gdm login shows up seems like a gdm configuration issue. As far as running a 3d modeler on one display device and an OpenGL preview window on another display device, what prevents you from doing this today? Is your complaint just the positioning of the DFP relative to the CRT? If so, then please look at the TwinViewOrientation option, or the offsets within the MetaMode (see the README for details). If your complaint is about something different, please let me know. Thanks. __________________ Andy Ritger NVIDIA Linux Graphics Driver Engineer

06-03-04, 03:50 AM	#7
bednar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 34	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! Andy, my concern was to point the problem, unknown since today for Nvidia as I think, and to show how the problem could be seen by some people (home users and professionals). Thank You very much for reply. I hope It resolves some problems. I'm not sure if I understand the solution of having gdm login screen on proper device. I was trying to set up following configuration: 800x600 TV (screen 1) left of 1280x1024 DFP (screen 0) in Twin View mode (I prefere the TvienView orver the Dual Head as I can move windows between screens, ofcourse when the Xinerama works properly). I don't remember if I got TV screen number 0 or 1. I think I got screen 0 on TV and this was cause of having gdm on TV. I can't check it know because I have no NVidia gfx card now, but when the problem will be resolved I'll switch to NV. Here is my saved configuration from the day I was testing NVidia card. Section "Monitor" Identifier "Sony" VendorName "Sony" ModelName "X72" HorizSync 20-65 VertRefresh 60 EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device1" VendorName "nvidia" Driver "nvidia" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" Option "NoDDC" "no" Option "TwinView" "yes" Option "TVStandard" "PAL-B" Option "TVOutFormat" "Svideo" Option "SecondMonitorHorizSync" "30-70" Option "SecondMonitorVertRefresh" "60" Option "TwinViewOrientation" "RightOf" Option "MetaModes" "800x600 @800x600, 1280x1024 @1280x1024" Option "ConnectedMonitor" "dfp" Option "ConnectedMonitor" "tv" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Device1" Monitor "Sony" DefaultColorDepth 24 Subsection "Display" Depth 24 EndSubsection EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "AGPTwinView" Screen "Screen1" InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard" EndSection I understand that I had to treat DFP as second monitor, at least in XF86Config-4. But I wonder how the Xserver and Xinerama extension (is the Xinerama build in NV driver????) will treat devices order. It is if X put gdm on DFP?

06-21-04, 05:54 PM	#8
sjgustafson Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! I have a flight sim application that I need to use both the VGA and DVI outputs on a series 5950 video carsd modified for genlock by RPA Electronics. I want to clone the DVI output to the VGA. I can get clone mode working correctly, but it causes a problem in my set up. Currently we have 4 1280x1024 inputs to a Laser Projector that produces a seamless 5120x1024 output (later to be upgraded to 5120x4096). The projector requires genlocked input. The software must also make use of genlock to make sure each of the 4 (the upgrade will use 16) PCs rendering the scene, the database server, and the system master stay synchronized so that they start their processing of the data at the same time. This is to prevent shearing in the scene. Now the problem I have is that when I set it up for clone mode, I am getting shearing in the scene. This does not occur when DVI only mode is used. The software is making use of signals tied to the genlock, which seems to be tied to the primary display, which seems to be hard coded to the VGA in the driver, in order to make sure the PCs stay synchronized. We need to have the DVI as the primary and we would like the VGA as the secondary in order to stop the shear. The purpose for the VGA output is that we need to be able to monitor the PC output separately, as an operator cannot be in the ****pit when the system is fully operational. We do not need to worry about the individual VGA scene or any lag that it may have with regards to any of the VGA scenes, as it will be selected through a KVM and only one of the VGA outputs will be seen at a time. In our case we can not just simply switch which monitor things will appear on.

10-08-04, 12:41 PM	#10
jap Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! I spent a few frustrating days configuring the card for DVI and TV output. Then I realized that no matter what I do, the TV is always the first, and the DVI is always the second monitor (ConnectedMonitor doesn't specify order, only devices to initialize). Ok, but then Xinerama will get told that the first device is a TV, so the login screen and new windows will get opened on the TV, not on the DVI... This is really annoying and I did not yet find out how to resolve it.

10-11-04, 10:02 AM	#11
chareos Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 48	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! The same, here ! Also problem extends to OpenGL games (Doom3, UT2004)

10-23-04, 11:16 AM	#12
udippel Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 42	Re: DFP and TV: I want DFP to be the primary display! So sad ! Can't possibly believe that it is impossible to DFP first. GDM can be moved, yes, but the taskbar in XFCE is stuck to the first display. Plus Xine crashes when I run Twinview (at least with TV-0 as first). For laptops, at least, there is no reason to start with TV ! I can only hope that NVIDIA is going to correct this unfortunate omission.