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Old 03-21-04, 01:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Yeah, that's the other problem with PCs: they may be "customizable", but a lot of things on it are screwy. Hell, I just got done reformating mine because it kept having odd problems (blank textures in games, previous "demos" showing nothing but a black screen, and I was getting 7000 3dmark2001s on an XP2000 with a TI4200...). Also it often takes a lot of tweaking to get it to work right, I was getting horrid performance in games before I remembered to install my AGP drivers for my motherboard.
Yeah, that was one of the reasons I started thinking about a console.

Heh, I just got through doing the same thing. I was trying out SP2 for XP and things didn't seem quite right. I was actually having some issues before that but installing the service pack seemed to make them worse. So, I wiped the disk and started over. Things are running really well now...but lets see how long it lasts.

I may get to see an Xbox connected to a hi-def LCD or plasma TV soon. Some friends of mine are looking and hopefully will buy one soon. If I understand you right, I guess it'll still be like 640x480 or 800x600 for the Xbox for most of the games? Do you happen to know offhand which 4 support the 1080i mode? Hopefully I can get them to hook their computer to it but I don't think he has anything close to gaming system PC-wise. He refuses to play games on a PC for some reason...only the Xbox.
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Old 03-21-04, 08:25 AM   #14
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I think most Xbox games (as in 99.9% of them) support at least 480p, which is usually 720x480 resolution, although not all are in widescreen format. For a list of games that support 720p (1280x720 resolution) and 1080i (1920x1080 resolution), check out this site: http://www.hdgames.net. Note that it's user-entered information, so some of it might be a little off (make sure to check the user comments to see if it's correct), but overall it's pretty acurate. Around 15 games do support 720p, so if you want the best detail you can get out of those Xbox games make sure the plasma TV is compatable with 720p (most of the time they'll at least upsample it to 1080i mode).

For quick reference, the 4 1080i games out right now for Xbox are Syberia, Dragon's Lair 3d, Enter the Matrix, and MX Unleashed. Not the best games to choose from, but at least they support it. But I think it's mainly the 720p games that really show off just how nice a console game can look on an HDTV (Line of Contact, Tony Hawk 4/Underground, and Soul Calibur 2 although it's not in widescreen all look spectacular on an HDTV screen). Though even some 480p games can look pretty great even though they run at such "low" resolution, I was amazed at how nice Panzer Dragoon Orta and DOA3 looked on my friend's HDTV.
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Old 03-21-04, 02:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Edge
I think most Xbox games (as in 99.9% of them) support at least 480p, which is usually 720x480 resolution, although not all are in widescreen format. For a list of games that support 720p (1280x720 resolution) and 1080i (1920x1080 resolution), check out this site: http://www.hdgames.net. Note that it's user-entered information, so some of it might be a little off (make sure to check the user comments to see if it's correct), but overall it's pretty acurate. Around 15 games do support 720p, so if you want the best detail you can get out of those Xbox games make sure the plasma TV is compatable with 720p (most of the time they'll at least upsample it to 1080i mode).

For quick reference, the 4 1080i games out right now for Xbox are Syberia, Dragon's Lair 3d, Enter the Matrix, and MX Unleashed. Not the best games to choose from, but at least they support it. But I think it's mainly the 720p games that really show off just how nice a console game can look on an HDTV (Line of Contact, Tony Hawk 4/Underground, and Soul Calibur 2 although it's not in widescreen all look spectacular on an HDTV screen). Though even some 480p games can look pretty great even though they run at such "low" resolution, I was amazed at how nice Panzer Dragoon Orta and DOA3 looked on my friend's HDTV.
Nice post. Thanks for the info. I'll pass it along to my friends as well since I'm sure they'll be wanting the same info soon.
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Old 03-22-04, 07:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OWA
I'm thinking of getting an Xbox soon but was wondering if the graphics will be improved over what you get when displaying computer games using TV-out. I'm currently testing TV-out using 800x600 (basically b/c it easier to see from a distance than it was when using 1024x768).

Would anyone that games on both a console (preferably an Xbox) and a computer care to comment on the quality difference if any? TIA.

One other thing, my Sony 32" TV is kind of old (about 12 years old). I know some newer TVs come ready for consoles so I don't know if that matters or not
*Back to topic*

I don't have an Xbox but I do have both Ps2 and the GameCube. I also play PC games (and emulators) on the tv with a ps2 controller adaptor ... just for the feeling

Image quallity wize the consoles wins, no question about it ... *no flaming yet, I aint talking FSAA or AA modes here* for a simple reason, Video cables.

For both my consoles I use fully wired RGB cables (connects to the scart imput) those give exelent IQ, but for the PC you only get Composite or S-video out (im using Svideo out from my computer)

RGB cables are not avalible for pc gfx cards ... no such connector (though the gfx cards do supports such output if one is handy enugh to build one)

There are high quallity S-Video cables (not just gold plated but shielded or something) that should offer better IQ ... but I dont know if the jump is that big oposed to console RGB VS the bundle cables. My Svideo cables are normal gold plated ones and you defenatly see a "shadow" in high contrast situations ... very annoying, kind of like you do on consoles when you use the normal cables (Here in sweden the consoles are all bundled with a normal composite/audio cable and a scart converter ... IE same as if you were to use Composite out from your computer)

But then there are other things to consider as well, chances are your PC is heck of a lot faster and can display games better then the avalible consoles ever could ... but that has already been stated so Ill not venture there

If you ask me *a gaming fan* you need both a computer and a console or two to get the coolest games

**EDIT**
Oh yeah, if someone wants to fill in about high quallity Svideo cables please do ... ive not tested them so I don't know the IQ difference between those and the normal ones. Im planning to buy one of those but they cost alot when you need long ones.
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Old 03-22-04, 03:53 PM   #17
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Are the RGB cables readily available (meaning retail) or will I need to order it from somewhere?
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Old 03-23-04, 02:08 AM   #18
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Here in sweden you get those cables from your game store (dunno if that is so in the US as I don't even know if there are RGB cables avalible there).
They do not come bundled with the consoles.

I know both Nintendo and Sony makes official RGB cables ... they are usually more expencive. Third party cables are more cheap and have audio output from the cable (red/black RCA so you can hoock it up to your reciver)
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Old 03-23-04, 03:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Console graphics vs Computer TV-OUT

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Uh…I would take some issue with that statement. Could you extrapolate on these "better polygon capabilities" a little more perhaps?
This is really a two part answer.

First, PC games are still in the relative dark ages when it comes to high polygon counts because PC GPU's have generally been lacking in high polygon output (and PC developers want to be able to cover a wide range of hardware, so they try and limitedly use high polygon scenes/models). Since there isn't this limitation in XBOX developement (one hardware configuration to exploit), developers can focus on the pure abilities of the machine. This is why most PC games (including newer games) still have less polygons per second in any given scene then the majority of PS2/XBOX games. PC developers are just too lazy, or just don't have the time to draw two different sets of models/scene (high and low polygon counts, which the use can select to use).

Second, While the XBOX GPU may techically be a brother to NV2x, is still has some tricks. It's theorectical polygon output is over 200 million pps (polygons per second). It can substain about 100 some million (a second) when those polygons are fully lit and textures (though, this is only 1 light and 1 texture). Lets compare that (using the 3DMark2k1 polygon test) to the GeForce3 doing about 27 million per second with one light, the GeForce4 doing about 40 million, the Radeon 9700/9800 doing 75 million, and I'm not exactly sure about the GFFX abilites.

Also, the XBox has insane partical abilities. We're talking greated then 100 million particals a second. What are the partical abilities of PC GPU's, I'm not sure.
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Old 03-23-04, 04:40 AM   #20
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Default Re: Console graphics vs Computer TV-OUT

This PC vs console comparison is quite old.I think that when you are a hardcore gamer and you got the money you should own every machine that has games you like.If you can spend a small amount buy a console.They are great.I have a PC and a GameCube and I'm a happy man.Yes GameCube games don't look that sharp in TV as PC games in my monitor but they have some very cool effects(see the water effects in Mario Sunshine,the helmet effects of Shamus in Metroid Prime or IKARUGA) and a rock solid framerate.The only PC game I have seen displayed on TV is Quake III Arena,and it seemed blurred. I think it is personal taste...

My question: Is there a way to plug my GameCube to my PC monitor???Is it going to be sharper??
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Old 03-23-04, 05:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: Console graphics vs Computer TV-OUT

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Originally Posted by jedah
My question: Is there a way to plug my GameCube to my PC monitor???Is it going to be sharper??
perhaps not yet, I dunno. For the PS2 there are such things, two types. One is an image converter thing. It's quite expensive and gives you a blurry image as it resizes and stuff like that.

Then you have the vga adaptor (i have one of those). It changes the display frequencies and stuff like that and can even unlock high res in games not normaly supporting such. A good new monitor is requierd for this however.
In this case you boot with a special boot cd that lets you do some screen configurations to suit most games (not all games are supported)
With this you get as sharp image as you do on your monitor with your PC.
Results may vary depending on the native resolution in the game.

I got the best results with Tekken 4 and Soul Calibur 2 as they both support progressive scan modes (so the cd isn't needed as long as you can see on your tv when you pick Progressive scan mode ... the vga adaptor has composite out too so you can have your tv connected at the same time)

Both of these games are displayed in 640x480 and it looks very good on a monitor

But as I sayd, the VGA adaptor isnt 100% compatible and you need a good new monitor, you wont see any picture when you use the vga adaptor untill the boot cd is loaded. So the cd is needed.
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Old 03-24-04, 10:18 AM   #22
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Default Re: Console graphics vs Computer TV-OUT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I think most Xbox games (as in 99.9% of them) support at least 480p, which is usually 720x480 resolution
No, it's 640*480.
Quote:
, although not all are in widescreen format. For a list of games that support 720p (1280x720 resolution) and 1080i (1920x1080 resolution), check out this site: http://www.hdgames.net. Note that it's user-entered information, so some of it might be a little off (make sure to check the user comments to see if it's correct), but overall it's pretty acurate. Around 15 games do support 720p, so if you want the best detail you can get out of those Xbox games make sure the plasma TV is compatable with 720p (most of the time they'll at least upsample it to 1080i mode).
Bear in mind some of the games that claim to support 720p/1080i are simply "upscaled" (ie: the pixels are doubled) - you're not always getting the true resolution.
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Old 03-24-04, 10:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Yeah, that's the other problem with PCs: they may be "customizable", but a lot of things on it are screwy. Hell, I just got done reformating mine because it kept having odd problems (blank textures in games, previous "demos" showing nothing but a black screen, and I was getting 7000 3dmark2001s on an XP2000 with a TI4200...). Also it often takes a lot of tweaking to get it to work right, I was getting horrid performance in games before I remembered to install my AGP drivers for my motherboard.
I'm not sure installing proper drivers for your system translates into a "lot of tweaking", ( ) but naturally that's a huge advantage for consoles, and that effects increases the marketing exposure as well.

Blockbuster can't rent PC games even if it was legal, as how can they guarantee it's going to work on your system? My PC is extremely trouble-free (in fact my consoles have crashed more), but that's obviously not the case for everyone. Think of how much more exposure PC gaming could get if rental chains could promote it - heck, considering the massive gulf of marketing between PC and console games, it's amazing PC gaming is surviving at all.
Quote:
And similarly, some PC developers are about as lazy as you can get. And it's not just ports: I remember with Starlancer, there was NO mouse control in the game at all, and it was a space flight sim!
Uh, I have to give a big "WTF?!" in reply to that.

What the hell does mouse control have to do with a space flight sim? Are you the one who actually though the mouse control in Freelancer was a good idea? Cripes, that dumbass decision completely ruined the game. I don't see how this example translates to "developer laziness" - use the control system the game was intended for. It's a space flight sim, not an FPS. You get a flightstick to pilot it, like you do with the majority of flight/combat sims. A gamepad is horrid by comparison for these types of games.
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Old 03-24-04, 10:30 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OWA
Yeah, that was one of the reasons I started thinking about a console.

Heh, I just got through doing the same thing. I was trying out SP2 for XP and things didn't seem quite right. I was actually having some issues before that but installing the service pack seemed to make them worse. So, I wiped the disk and started over. Things are running really well now...but lets see how long it lasts.
I believe you're find that installing a significant, beta upgrade not meant to be used on production systems can have negative effects at times on your target system.

Go figure.
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