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Old 04-03-04, 08:06 PM   #1
theultimo
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Default Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Just a random observation, but OpenGL on my 5600 runs great, albeit in a crapper lighting.
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Old 04-03-04, 10:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theultimo
Just a random observation, but OpenGL on my 5600 runs great, albeit in a crapper lighting.
So then is it really a big surprise, considering NVIDIA has better OpenGL support and it looks less impressive?

Although being able to play such a good game on your laptop sounds excellent. I'll give you credit there.
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Old 04-03-04, 11:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Is there any way to run opengl on the ATI side? I've tried it with the 5900U and it's a little smoother but doesn't look quite as good (like you noted). I can't seem to get opengl to work with my ATI card. It crashes as soon as it begins to load the level.
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Old 04-04-04, 04:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

OpenGL gives me some funny colours with my ti4600, and when you use the binoculars the textures go to hell. And the performance increase was minimal, so I set it back to DX.
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Old 04-04-04, 08:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

what the heck?? Please tell me how to get OGL mode running. Under the renderer option it is grayed out on mine and will only let me run DX.
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Old 04-04-04, 11:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

eh?? This game was coded for dx9!, not open GL.. AND THEY ARE JUST APIs anyway..

Let me guess the logic goes like this :

This new game doesn't run well, and its DX9, so therefore to make my FX card run it better Il'll switch to openGL cause FX cards do that better.

There are soooooo many huge holes in that logic that it ain't funny.. You are not going to fix performance with nvidia cards by somehow tricking the game into usng openGL.. It just isn't that simple..

If the missing features in the openGL mode (all the pixel shading) were implemented then the openGL mode would run pretty much exactly the same speed as the DX9 mode does now.. Open GL and DX are JUST APIs!. The rendering load vs the cards capabilities are what determine its speed, not what API they chose to do it.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

What was the point of you post Drumphil? Are you just trying to stir something up? If the game runs in OGL and someone wants to try it what is the problem? theultimo was just letting us know it runs great in OGL. And yes FX card do run better in OGL. I run every game in OGL that supports OGL as it is always faster. Like you said its just a rendering path so if it runs better why not run it that way? Where is the "huge hole in that logic"? Don't run the API that is faster!
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Old 04-05-04, 12:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Zeta
What was the point of you post Drumphil? Are you just trying to stir something up? If the game runs in OGL and someone wants to try it what is the problem?
the problem is that the game is coded for DX, and the game makes heavy usage of the newer features in DX, and they have not done this for open Gl. Open GL mode only works faster cause it doesn't render a lot of stuff.

Quote:
theultimo was just letting us know it runs great in OGL. And yes FX card do run better in OGL. I run every game in OGL that supports OGL as it is always faster.
Yeah, and you can make it run faster by turning all the details down to the lowest setting too. The fact that openGL mode works faster is not an advantage if it doesn't work properly.

Quote:
Like you said its just a rendering path so if it runs better why not run it that way? Where is the "huge hole in that logic"? Don't run the API that is faster!
The hole in that logic is that the game doesn't suport open GL, and that it works faster in GL mode cause the GFX card isn't rendering everything, not because stuff can magically be rendered faster by FX cards if open GL is used. Remember these games are shader performance limited, and so the API chosen makes even less difference than usual, cause the bottleneck is the shading performance of the cards, and the FX cards have the same shading horsepower under open GL or DX9.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumphil
the problem is that the game is coded for DX, and the game makes heavy usage of the newer features in DX, and they have not done this for open Gl. Open GL mode only works faster cause it doesn't render a lot of stuff.



Yeah, and you can make it run faster by turning all the details down to the lowest setting too. The fact that openGL mode works faster is not an advantage if it doesn't work properly.



The hole in that logic is that the game doesn't suport open GL, and that it works faster in GL mode cause the GFX card isn't rendering everything, not because stuff can magically be rendered faster by FX cards if open GL is used. Remember these games are shader performance limited, and so the API chosen makes even less difference than usual, cause the bottleneck is the shading performance of the cards, and the FX cards have the same shading horsepower under open GL or DX9.

Ok the game doesnt support OpenGL, But its rendering it faster?

If it doesnt officially support and the person wants to run it in OpenGL, What freaken difference does it make? and Yes OpenGL is faster than DX for Nvidia when it makes use of Nvidia extensions, which could have unlocked Shader 1.1 support, Or 2.0 Support Via Nv_Fragment, No way to know.

I cant believe you are claiming that OpenGL is incapable of Running a DirectX 9.0 featured game because it doesnt support the same features, When it does, Its just called out different by different fragment extensions.

Now Big assumptions. IF OpenGL renderer is using Nvidias Shader extensions for rendering, Then yes you could probably get performance increases under the exact variables you'd find under a DirectX 9.0 extension. The Game could very well be using Nvidia extensions which perform faster than DX 9.0 SDK extensions. Why? Because Nvidias extensions are faster than standard extensions.


That Being said, How do you enable OpenGL in this game? I am a big big fan of OpenGL usage over DirectX (Anything to make Microsofts day a little more difficult )
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Old 04-05-04, 12:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
Ok the game doesnt support OpenGL, But its rendering it faster?

If it doesnt officially support and the person wants to run it in OpenGL, What freaken difference does it make? and Yes OpenGL is faster than DX for Nvidia when it makes use of Nvidia extensions, which could have unlocked Shader 1.1 support, Or 2.0 Support Via Nv_Fragment, No way to know.
Well, if they enable the open GL extentions to do this, we might find out.. As they haven't it doesn't matter. And they use ps1.1 on NVIDIA cards with direct X anyway.. You don't have to use open GL to get access to these "features" on nvidia cards.

Using openGL farcry doesn't render a lot of stuff that is rendered in DX mode, thats why its so much faster under openGL.. Thats not hard to understand is it.. And all arguments about what it could do are useless BECAUSE IT DOESN'T.






Quote:
I cant believe you are claiming that OpenGL is incapable of Running a DirectX 9.0 featured game because it doesnt support the same features, When it does, Its just called out different by different fragment extensions.
Now Big assumptions. OpenGL is uses Nvidias Shader extensions for rendering, Then yes you could probably get performance increases under the exact variables you'd find under a DirectX 9.0 extension. The Game could very well be using Nvidia extensions which perform faster than DX 9.0 SDK extensions.
Ok, again, if they did code an openGL path that took advantage of these features yes! (note in my previous post where I said that the same rendering could be done in openGL if they had coded for it, BUT THEY DIDN'T..). So if they had coded the game for openGL, the results might be different, but its highly unlikely because shader power is the limitation, not the API.

Imagine the game was coded for open GL, and some people found a way to run it under DX, but a lot of the rendering features didn't work.. Then that person claims that the game works better under DX than openGL cause its faster.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Well, if they enable the open GL extentions to do this, we might find out.. As they haven't it doesn't matter. And they use ps1.1 on NVIDIA cards with direct X anyway.. You don't have to use open GL to get access to these "features" on nvidia cards
Thats not what I am talking about. I said they probably enabled these features through NV_Fragment shaders, Assuming they did, There WOULD be a performance increase over standard DX9.0 SDK shaders in 1.1. Under most circumstances, Because Nvidias fragment shaders bring out the best register usage on Nvidia cards.

Quote:
Ok, again, if they did code an openGL path that took advantage of these features yes! (note in my previous post where I said that the same rendering could be done in openGL if they had coded for it, BUT THEY DIDN'T..). So if they had coded the game for openGL, the results might be different, but its highly unlikely because shader power is the limitation, not the API.
You have been claiming that Nvidia doesnt run Faster in Shader Limited Situations under OpenGL.

Quote:
Remember these games are shader performance limited, and so the API chosen makes even less difference than usual,
I mean under what Logic would you suggest this? There are 2 ways to unlock features Under OpenGL, Arb Fragment Shaders and NV_Fragment shaders, Both are just as capable.

I'm trying to figure out where you are running the assumption that OpenGL renderer isnt Using similar tech to The DirectX 9.0 Renderer just because its not officially supported. Shaders just like Multitexturing can be improved under ideal extension enviroments which Nvidia Uses in OpenGL


Quote:
Using openGL farcry doesn't render a lot of stuff that is rendered in DX mode, thats why its so much faster under openGL.. Thats not hard to understand is it.. And all arguments about what it could do are useless BECAUSE IT DOESN'T.
You really need to take a chill Pill. Your cap locks and screaming tone is pretty funny. Obviously if its running Faster Under OpenGL and they prefer it, Then let them bloody use it, You are sitting here trolling them and saying "API DOESNT MAKE A DIFFERENCE" (Yes the cap lock is a direct pun at the way you chatting) It just doesnt work the same. It's completely False, I have a pretty good feeling you dont know exactly what features are unlocked in OpenGL mode, They are saying the Lighting looks different, Which is very possible.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
Thats not what I am talking about. I said they probably enabled these features through NV_Fragment shaders, Assuming they did, There WOULD be a performance increase over standard DX9.0 SDK shaders in 1.1. Under most circumstances, Because Nvidias fragment shaders bring out the best register usage on Nvidia cards.



You have been claiming that Nvidia doesnt run Faster in Shader Limited Situations under OpenGL.



I mean under what Logic would you suggest this? There are 2 ways to unlock features Under OpenGL, Arb Fragment Shaders and NV_Fragment shaders, Both are just as capable.

I'm trying to figure out where you are running the assumption that OpenGL renderer isnt Using similar tech to The DirectX 9.0 Renderer just because its not officially supported. Shaders just like Multitexturing can be improved under ideal extension enviroments which Nvidia Uses in OpenGL
EH?? how about the fact that these rendering feaures aren't being used when you run farcry in open GL mode.. Run it yourself and check.

anyways, the FX cards have a weak shader architecture, and even using code that may be more optimised for it can only do so much.. It comes down to math in the end.. And can someone point me to some evidence showing that FX cards can do the same shading tasks better if openGL is used. i remember hearing a lot about how new drivers were going to change the nvidia complier to send the instructions in a more FX architecture friendly way.. That led to about a .5% increase in shader speed.

You seem to be working under the assumption that the disparity between ATI and NVIDIA shader power is down to the way the information is fed to the card, and now down to the shader power of the cards..

To put it simply, the r3xx cards have more shading power, and FX cards will render the same shader code slower, regardless if its presented through openGL or DX.
What can be done with NVIDIA is lower precision shaders can be specified to gain speed. However while ever the NVIDIA hardware is running the same shaders (and remember identical shader codes can be sent through openGL or DX) the r3xx can do them faster than the FX.
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