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Old 04-04-04, 11:48 PM   #13
ChrisRay
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

How about, You stop proclaiming that API doesnt make a difference in Shader limited scenerios, Because its complete Bullox, You may very well be right about the game not rendering certain Features,

The Way something is programmed could very well run alot more efficient under an OpenGL enviroment. You sitting there saying. OpenGL With shaders will run exactly like DirectX is just crap, Because OpenGL is done so differently.
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Old 04-04-04, 11:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

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Originally Posted by Drumphil
EH?? how about the fact that these rendering feaures aren't being used when you run farcry in open GL mode.. Run it yourself and check.

anyways, the FX cards have a weak shader architecture, and even using code that may be more optimised for it can only do so much.. It comes down to math in the end.. And can someone point me to some evidence showing that FX cards can do the same shading tasks better if openGL is used. i remember hearing a lot about how new drivers were going to change the nvidia complier to send the instructions in a more FX architecture friendly way.. That led to about a .5% increase in shader speed.


You just dont get it do you, They are saying That Far Cry Runs better for them in OpenGL, and it probably does, a 5-10% improvement could provide the difference between playability and unplayability. The Game is making heavy Usage of Shader 1.1 Anyway. If they are happy with it and Only noticing a small difference in Lighting Quality, You shouldnt sit here and troll and tell them that Shaders cant be improved From API to API, The whole point of Nvidias OpenGL drivers is they can pretty much add whatever they want, Do whatever they want with them. So performance could very well be improved by Just Switching renderer.
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Old 04-04-04, 11:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

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Originally Posted by ChrisRay
You just dont get it do you, They are saying That Far Cry Runs better for them in OpenGL, and it probably does, a 5-10% improvement could provide the difference between playability and unplayability. The Game is making heavy Usage of Shader 1.1 Anyway. If they are happy with it and Only noticing a small difference in Lighting Quality, You shouldnt sit here and troll and tell them that Shaders cant be improved From API to API, The whole point of Nvidias OpenGL drivers is they can pretty much add whatever they want, Do whatever they want with them. So performance could very well be improved by Just Switching renderer.

ONLY IF THE GAME WRITERS WRITE CODE FOR THE RENDERER IN QUESTION.. Which they haven't.. And since when did missing rendering features become acceptable as a speed up.. Punk Buster might beg to differ.
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Old 04-04-04, 11:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
How about, You stop proclaiming that API doesnt make a difference in Shader limited scenerios, Because its complete Bullox, You may very well be right about the game not rendering certain Features,

The Way something is programmed could very well run alot more efficient under an OpenGL enviroment. You sitting there saying. OpenGL With shaders will run exactly like DirectX is just crap, Because OpenGL is done so differently.
Your last sentence summs up the problem with your logic.. DX and OpenGL are NOT done so differently.. Hence its possible to run many games in both modes.. And you are accessing the same pixel shading units whichever API you use. I love how people think the two APIs can be soooo different when they both run over the top of the same rendering hardware.

Actually, instead of me talking, if humus is listening, care to give some shading examples.. I'd like to see an actually 3d coder demonstrate shading tasks that can be done faster with openGl over DX with a fx card.
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Old 04-04-04, 11:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumphil
ONLY IF THE GAME WRITERS WRITE CODE FOR THE RENDERER IN QUESTION..[/ Which they haven't.. And since when did missing rendering features become acceptable as a speed up.. Punk Buster might beg to differ.

They obviously have written code for the renderer in Question if its freaken Usen the OpenGL API, Do you have any idea how OpenGL works? you dont just load an OpenGL rendererer over DirectX 9.0 Compiled routines. They have obviously written an OpenGL Renderer for the game if it works in OpenGL


Quote:
ONLY IF THE GAME WRITERS WRITE CODE FOR THE RENDERER IN QUESTION..




Quote:
Your last sentence summs up the problem with your logic.. DX and OpenGL are NOT done so differently.. Hence its possible to run many games in both modes.. And you are accessing the same pixel shading units whichever API you use. I love how people think the two APIs can be soooo different when they both run over the top of the same rendering hardware.
Yes they are, They are brought via different extensions and coding. I cant believe What you are sitting here and saying. An OpenGL Game requires a renderer to be coded and compiled for differently, The thing they do have in common is where they loading Maps, Textures, And Models And texture maps from.

Just because a game is using OpenGL when it has a D3d Renderer doesnt mean they are just switching renderers, The renderer has to be bloody recoded to Work With in OpenGL. Obviously OpenGL is using Shaders because the API supports them.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:01 AM   #18
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

A lot of people probably want to try opengl (especially on the nvidia side) b/c it says it can help in the readme file. I tried it even though I have a FX (5900U) card and it seemed to help a little there as well although I still use the DX9 mode.

From the readme in Far Cry...
Quote:
-For NVIDIA Users of GeForce Cards up to GeForce 4 whose framerate feed choppy or slow, edit the file system.cfg and change the line r_Driver = “Direct3D9” to r_Driver = “OpenGL” to try the unsupported OpenGL Version. This may run faster in specific cases.
Edit: Crytek says it may be faster, people are reporting it's faster so what's the issue again? I'm not sure I'm following the argument.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
They obviously have written code for the renderer in Question if its freaken Usen the OpenGL API, Do you have any idea how OpenGL works? you dont just load an OpenGL rendererer over DirectX 9.0 Compiled routines. They have obviously written an OpenGL Renderer for the game if it works in OpenGL


well DUH.. unfortunately it doesn't support many rendering features that the game uses.. If they do implement these features, well great, and then we will have concrete answer to "could the same thing be done faster using openGL with FX cards"
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Old 04-05-04, 12:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OWA
A lot of people probably want to try opengl (especially on the nvidia side) b/c it says it can help in the readme file. I tried it even though I have a FX (5900U) card and it seemed to help a little there as well although I still use the DX9 mode.

From the readme in Far Cry...


Edit: Crytek says it may be faster, people are reporting it's faster so what's the issue again? I'm not sure I'm following the argument.

I dont think he knows what his argument is, He's Saying that if its rendered in D3d, it can be rendered in OpenGL without many Changes being made, And thats JUst Bullock. The game has to be recoded to work For OpenGL, And brought out with totally different extensions and usage parameters.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

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Originally Posted by ChrisRay
The game has to be recoded to work For OpenGL, And brought out with totally different extensions and usage parameters.
righhhhhht... any game dev's here care to comment on that one. Ovbiously there are differences, but its not like one uses C++, and the other uses FORTRAN or something like that.

and when I was taking about the same things being similar in dx and open GL, I was talking about shaders.. Do you really think that HLSL and GLSL work on a totally differnt basis. They are still just shader compilers feeding shaders to the same shader hardware.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

Oh, okay. Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

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Originally Posted by Drumphil
righhhhhht... any game dev's here care to comment on that one.

and when I was taking about the same things being similar in dx and open GL, I was talking about shaders.. Do you really think that HLSL and GLSL work on a totally differnt basis. They are still just shader compilers feeding shader to the same shader hardware.


Totally different? No, But they have can be coded for differently, And GLSL is using different extensions than DirectX, So Obviously several changes have to be made. You cant run a Shader extension meant for DirectX in an OpenGL enviroment and Vice Versa, Recoding has to occur.

No One here is suggesting that Nvidia hardware is running 100% Faster in OpenGL, But the OpenGL renderer is probably using different extensions and registar usage which could very well improve performance. Nvidias architecture is sensitive to registry, And Nvidias OpenGL Drivers are much better at recognising register sensitive Shader code than DirectX implementation.
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Old 04-05-04, 12:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: Far Cry: OpenGL or DX9?

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Originally Posted by ChrisRay
Totally different? No, But they have can be coded for differently, And GLSL is using different extensions than DirectX, So Obviously several changes have to be made. You cant run a Shader extension meant for DirectX in an OpenGL enviroment and Vice Versa, Recoding has to occur.
YES!.. but how big do you think the differences can be given that they are still running over THE EXACT SAME SHADER UNITS..

anyway, the reason I posted in this thread in the first place was because people were thinking they were getting better FPS cause they were using openGL, not because of the missing rendering features. If they do implement these features in the openGL mode, and it performs roughly the same as the DX mode, then we will know I was right.
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