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Old 07-17-07, 04:17 AM   #1
Mr.A
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Question @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Hi,

I have done some testing with quake4 multiplayer Demo "playNetTimeDemo id_demo.ndmo86" and latest compiz svn.

My results are:
driver version | NVIDIA-Linux-x86-100.14.11
resolution | 1280x720

metacity | 99 fps
compiz | 84 fps (it never looks as smooth as without compiz)

A part of my xorg.conf:
Code:
Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Geforce 8600 GT"
    Driver         "nvidia"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier     "Default Screen"
    Device         "Geforce 8600 GT"
    Monitor        "BenQ FP231W"
    DefaultDepth    24
    Option         "DisableGLXRootClipping" "true"
    Option         "RenderAccel" "True"
    Option         "AllowGLXWithComposite" "True"
    Option         "AddARGBGLXVisuals" "True"
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       1
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       4
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       8
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       15
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       16
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       24
        Modes      "1920x1200" "1440x900" "1280x800" "1280x1024" "1280x800" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
    EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
    Option         "Composite" "Enable"
EndSection
So I would like to know is this a driver issue or a problem with compiz?
If it is a problem with compiz, are you working together with the compiz developer (for example David Reveman) to improve this situation?

regards
Mr. A
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Old 07-17-07, 05:01 AM   #2
gbil
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

My end user opinion is that this is normal since compiz uses opengl + an opengl app = less fps for the app.

If you want to achieve something like vista does when a 3D app runs - that is close aero - then this must happen on another level not driver level.
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Old 07-17-07, 08:00 AM   #3
lloeki
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

well, it is only normal to lose some fps, since you're using part of the gpu for compiz, when it's not used with metacity. it's like complaining that your usual game doesn't run as fast when you're encoding some audio (or any other task)...
resources get shared among the various stasks on the system...

as for "smoothness", sure I too lose a mere 5 fps in games, but it stays smooth nonetheless. hell, your 84fps is damn smooth, given that the human eye can only perceive ~25fps grand max.
that said:
- if you're playing fullscreen, you can 'disable redirect for fullscreen windows'.
- I always encountered an issue with compiz, which by default 1. autodetects its target fps and 2. activates vsync, both which for some reason makes the games (actually, compiz's rendering of the game's frame) skip one frame out of some, giving some totally un-smooth behavior, regardless of the high fps rating. disabling compiz vsync and its refresh rate autodetection, and forcing it to my panel's 60fps gives a total pleasure to the eye.
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Old 07-17-07, 09:03 AM   #4
Mr.A
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Smile Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloeki
... - I always encountered an issue with compiz, which by default 1. autodetects its target fps and 2. activates vsync, both which for some reason makes the games (actually, compiz's rendering of the game's frame) skip one frame out of some, giving some totally un-smooth behavior, regardless of the high fps rating. disabling compiz vsync and its refresh rate autodetection, and forcing it to my panel's 60fps gives a total pleasure to the eye.
That is what I meant.
So in this specific situation, it seems to be a driver bug/issue.

I think you only get it to 98% synced.
NVIDIA X Server Settings tells me, that my monitor refresh rate is 58,47 Hz.
I couldn't get compiz to do the same frequency, I can only use 60 or 58 as refresh rate. If I play videos I can see tearing, that is not so nice.
At the moment compiz is not really smooth if I take a look at a Intel based graphics system it is much smoother. I never got it so smooth on a NVIDIA System. This has nothing to do with the fps it is just how compiz behaves.

So it would be interesting for everyone of use to know if NVIDIA is going to solve those problems.

And I really would like to know if NVIDIA is working together with the compiz developer.

I mean NVIDIA is working together with the developer from Crysis and other great games to get the best out of there hardware.

NVIDIA please let as know.

regards
Mr. A

p.s.
Nvida is doing a great job compared to the ATI/AMD drivers.
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Old 07-17-07, 10:14 AM   #5
netllama
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Whenever a compositing manager is used (such as compiz), performance will be less than without. This is a result of the fact that everything must first be rendered off screen and then 'composited' onto the desktop. This is not a driver bug, its the nature of how compositing works.

This has already been explained in detail in older threads on this forum.
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Old 11-17-07, 10:59 AM   #6
barefeats
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.A
Hi,

I have done some testing with quake4 multiplayer Demo "playNetTimeDemo id_demo.ndmo86" ...
Where can I get a copy of id_demo.ndmo86?
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Old 11-17-07, 11:19 AM   #7
Dragoran
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

try starting compiz with --loose-binding
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Old 11-17-07, 12:09 PM   #8
Mr.A
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Lightbulb Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefeats
Where can I get a copy of id_demo.ndmo86?
This demo is part of the Q4Mp-Demo v1.4.2.

You should just type this command "playNetTimeDemo id_demo.ndmo86" and the demo will play.

best wishes
Mr.A
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Old 11-17-07, 06:59 PM   #9
Sblantipodi
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbil
My end user opinion is that this is normal since compiz uses opengl + an opengl app = less fps for the app.

If you want to achieve something like vista does when a 3D app runs - that is close aero - then this must happen on another level not driver level.
I don't think that is normal with a 8800GTX.

I have a 8600M GT and with compiz, euphoria screensaver runs slow. This is not normal.
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Old 11-18-07, 02:41 AM   #10
Mr.A
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Smile Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sblantipodi
I don't think that is normal with a 8800GTX.

I have a 8600M GT and with compiz, euphoria screensaver runs slow. This is not normal.
I have a Geforce 8600GT and the euphoria screensaver runs quite well on my system.

Maybe there is something wrong on your system.

I have to say that the situation has quite changed since I started this Thread.

Now I use ubuntu 7.10 with the latest beta drivers v169.04 and the 3D performance is better and smoother as it was.

My results for q4demo:
resolution | 1280x720 Hight Quality
compiz | 114,5 fps
without compiz | 127 fps

My results for ioquake3:
resolution | 1920x1200 Hight Quality
compiz | 296,5 fps
without compiz | 303,5 fps

Sure I have some more fps without compiz but the difference is so small that I can live with.

I mean it is still not perfect but to my mind I have to say that I use compiz every day without big problems. Sure there is always something that you can improve.

Now back to your post.

Maybe you could tell us something about your System.

for example.

- distro
- xorg.conf
- driver version

That would help to solve your problems.

best wishes
Mr.A
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Old 11-18-07, 06:47 AM   #11
Sblantipodi
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.A
I have a Geforce 8600GT and the euphoria screensaver runs quite well on my system.

Maybe there is something wrong on your system.

I have to say that the situation has quite changed since I started this Thread.

Now I use ubuntu 7.10 with the latest beta drivers v169.04 and the 3D performance is better and smoother as it was.

My results for q4demo:
resolution | 1280x720 Hight Quality
compiz | 114,5 fps
without compiz | 127 fps

My results for ioquake3:
resolution | 1920x1200 Hight Quality
compiz | 296,5 fps
without compiz | 303,5 fps

Sure I have some more fps without compiz but the difference is so small that I can live with.

I mean it is still not perfect but to my mind I have to say that I use compiz every day without big problems. Sure there is always something that you can improve.

Now back to your post.

Maybe you could tell us something about your System.

for example.

- distro
- xorg.conf
- driver version

That would help to solve your problems.

best wishes
Mr.A
Euphoria runs quite well, this is the problem :P
It should run perfectly I use that screensaver with a GeForce3 Ti500 with compiz without any problem... It should run smoother.

Probably you can help me here, probably I'm missing some options in my xorg.conf.
Please help me here:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=102528
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Old 11-18-07, 10:25 AM   #12
Doogman
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Default Re: @Nvidia: OpenGL apps with compiz enabled run slower

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.A
I have done some testing with quake4 multiplayer Demo "playNetTimeDemo id_demo.ndmo86" and latest compiz svn.

My results are:
driver version | NVIDIA-Linux-x86-100.14.11
resolution | 1280x720

metacity | 99 fps
compiz | 84 fps (it never looks as smooth as without compiz)
As others have stated, this isn't really a Nvidia problem, but one with compiz. Compiz can't really distinguish between regular windows and 3D apps (games), so the game display has to run through the compiz "effects" code (even though nothing is happening) causing the slowdowns you have seen.

First, I have to respond to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloeki
<snip>
as for "smoothness", sure I too lose a mere 5 fps in games, but it stays smooth nonetheless. hell, your 84fps is damn smooth, given that the human eye can only perceive ~25fps grand max.
The major assumption your are making is that the frame drops are occurring at a steady rate. Of course, this is wrong. What happens is that you get some time when no frame rate drop occurs and then a big blast of dropped frames which is very noticeable and much worse than a mere 5 fps of framerate loss would suggest.

The good news is that it's better than it used to be, but it's still a problem.

Ahhh, if only compiz had a setting so it would ignore full screen apps, allowing games to run at their full FPS without all that lag. But, wait, it does!

In Settings Manager/General/

Unredirect Fullscreen Windows

Unfortunately, the damn thing doesn't work properly. At this moment, it doesn't seem to help the FPS lags, but in UT2004 it does manage to steal the mouse focus so you can't play the game at all.

Alas, Unredirect Fullscreen Windows (UFW) is one of the buggiest features in compiz and has had a long history of not working, half-working and triggering other bugs. It seems most of the compiz developers don't use any other 3D apps at all besides compiz itself.

So, the solution to your problem is a working UFW setting in compiz, but this is the wrong forum to get a fix.
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