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Old 05-12-04, 12:05 PM   #16
dpw2atox
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

If you are going to use a TEST release of an OS then expect things not to work. Yea nvidia will probably support 4kstacks in their next driver release but nvidia's policy is not to support TEST kernels / OS's and since FC2 is still a TEST release you can either recompile a new kernel or use Fedora Core 1 or any other distro for that matter. It always pisses me off to no end that people install a test release and expect it to work perfect and the moment there is a problem they complain constantly about it. It says this is for experimental use only and not for production use but yet people seem to ignore that. I know there is the argument that well this is the future of blah blah blah but the thing is things can change when something is in a beta/test release. A perfect example is selinux. It was going to be enabled by default in Fedora Core 2 and now will be disabled by default. Well I guess thats enough of a rant and rave.
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Old 05-12-04, 01:56 PM   #17
hppnq
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuLinUX
What a silly thing to say, of course the kernel dev will not be held up, it's FC thats switching kernel every two minutes. SuSE doesnot need do do this, others are fine but FC is bleeding edge, FC certainly does not lead the way by a long shot. You'll just have to wait without 3d support, it's no big deal.
Maybe reading a bit more careful wouldn't hurt. I said Fedora is an early adopter. Soon, though, the vanilla kernel will no longer offer you the possibility to choose between 4K or 8K stacks. 4K stacks are then a fact of life, and yes, you could bend over backwards patching back to 8K stacks, but I don't think any of the distributions will, that would be ridiculous.

Of course Nvidia should just release a driver that is compatible with current kernels.
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Old 05-12-04, 02:20 PM   #18
hppnq
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

It always pisses me off to no end that people install a test release and expect it to work perfect and the moment there is a problem they complain constantly about it.

Yes that is annoying, fortunately most of the users on this forum are quite polite. I fail to see how your post relates to the rest of this thread.

Only because FC is using 4K stacks does not mean that this is a wise decision. And if you have further read the thread on lkml, then you would see that there are a lot of open questions about that.
So, it is not even sure that 4k stacks will apear in vanilla 2.6, why are you trying to panicing the people?


What do you mean? 8K stacks are almost out of the window (you do read LKML, don't you?). Wouldn't you want to know if you had to use Nvidia's current drivers?!
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Old 05-12-04, 04:24 PM   #19
deadmeat
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hppnq
It always pisses me off to no end that people install a test release and expect it to work perfect and the moment there is a problem they complain constantly about it.

Yes that is annoying, fortunately most of the users on this forum are quite polite. I fail to see how your post relates to the rest of this thread.

Only because FC is using 4K stacks does not mean that this is a wise decision. And if you have further read the thread on lkml, then you would see that there are a lot of open questions about that.
So, it is not even sure that 4k stacks will apear in vanilla 2.6, why are you trying to panicing the people?


What do you mean? 8K stacks are almost out of the window (you do read LKML, don't you?). Wouldn't you want to know if you had to use Nvidia's current drivers?!
for the people who just can seem to research things before they open their mouths, from the 2.6.6 release changelog:

"<akpm@osdl.org>
[PATCH] ia32: 4Kb stacks (and irqstacks) patch

From: Arjan van de Ven <arjanv@redhat.com>

Below is a patch to enable 4Kb stacks for x86. The goal of this is to

1) Reduce footprint per thread so that systems can run many more threads
(for the java people)

2) Reduce the pressure on the VM for order > 0 allocations. We see real life
workloads (granted with 2.4 but the fundamental fragmentation issue isn't
solved in 2.6 and isn't solvable in theory) where this can be a problem.
In addition order > 0 allocations can make the VM "stutter" and give more
latency due to having to do much much more work trying to defragment

The first 2 bits of the patch actually affect compiler options in a generic
way: I propose to disable the -funit-at-a-time feature from gcc. With this
enabled (and it's default with -O2), gcc will very agressively inline
functions, which is nice and all for userspace, but for the kernel this makes
us suffer a gcc deficiency more: gcc is extremely bad at sharing stackslots,
for example a situation like this:

if (some_condition)
function_A();
else
function_B();

with -funit-at-a-time, both function_A() and _B() might get inlined, however
the stack usage of both functions of the parent function grows the stack
usage of both functions COMBINED instead of the maximum of the two. Even
with the normal 8Kb stacks this is a danger since we see some functions grow
3Kb to 4Kb of stack use this way. With 4Kb stacks, 4Kb of stack usage growth
obviously is deadly ;-( but even with 8Kb stacks it's pure lottery.
Disabling -funit-at-a-time also exposes another thing in the -mm tree; the
attribute always_inline is considered harmful by gcc folks in that when gcc
makes a decision to NOT inline a function marked this way, it throws an
error. Disabling -funit-at-a-time disables some of the agressive inlining
(eg of large functions that come later in the .c file) so this would make
your tree not compile.

The 4k stackness of the kernel is included in modversions, so people don't
load 4k-stack modules into 8k-stack kernels.

At present 4k stacks are selectable in config. When the feature has settled
in we should remove the 8k option. This will break the nvidia modules. But
Fedora uses 4k stacks so a new nvidia driver is expected soon"
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Old 05-12-04, 09:22 PM   #20
jale2ice
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

For some reason, nvidia drivers crashed my box. Here is a copy of /var/log/messages with nvidia written all over it. I'm not too sure what to make of all this. It has only happened once since I installed it (Saturday morning). I'm somewhat a n00bie and no testing experience. (I have to start somewhere )

ASUS A7N8X
AMD Athlon 2500+
512MB DDR PC2700
NVIDIA GEFORCE FX 5900 ULTRA
MAXTOR 60GB HD

Fedora Core 2 test 3
w/ 2.6.6 kernel from kernel.org
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Old 05-13-04, 04:48 AM   #21
hppnq
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Please search this forum a bit, there are many many posts about your problem. You will at least have to solve the 4K stack problem, but there might be more issues. If you are still having problems when you are done reading, post as much information (your X configuration, logs), preferably in a new thread.

(Remember that you can save yourself some trouble by using X's nv driver, which provides decent 2d capabilities, while you wait for the updated Nvidia driver. ;-)
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Old 05-13-04, 10:22 AM   #22
cacruden
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpw2atox
It always pisses me off to no end that people install a test release and expect it to work perfect and the moment there is a problem they complain constantly about it.
Agreed to a point; BUT if they are involved in testing it -- then they can log a bug report and they are kept up-to-date on the process where the fix is at.

nVidia however is not involved (publicly) in that process, so when people see a change in the system, the first thing they try to do is to make the people responsible aware of it (like 4K Stacks). People get fustrated when there is no communications about: 1. Yes they recognized it is a problem; 2. They will fix it; 3. What release and when; 4. Offer beta releases to testers (when available).

Once that is done..... people know what to expect and are less likely to get fustrated. It is called EXPECTATION MANAGEMENT

It is unlikely that they treat Microsoft Windows in the same manner. I doubt they wait until AFTER the final is released, and then begin to work on the problem.
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Old 05-14-04, 04:02 PM   #23
siddly
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringCheesian
I've heard that something new in the 2.6.6 kernel (4K stacks, or something like that) breaks the nvidia kernel module. You guys know about that, right? I just thought I'd mention it just in case, since I don't see any discussion about it.

I'm currently using 2.6.5 with Gentoo Linux and the nvidia driver (version 1.0-5336) works great. But I'm thinking about upgrading my kernel, and I'm worried about future compatibility between the linux kernel 2.6 and nivida's drivers...
The 4KSTACKS patch is part of 2.6.x-mm series. ***WARNING*** you need to reverse the make-4k-stacks-permanent.patch patch or you can corrupt your hard drive. The first one, it caused not to boot fully, the second one was totally corrupt, I had to reformat and re-install. I'm now using the first one for storing files and access to things I need to copy over to SuSE 9.1.
The problem I'm having now with 2.6.6-mm, driver 5336 fails to build, it gets compile errors. I don't know if it's the fault of my new SuSE 9.1 install or something in the new kernel. I've reported this to the kernel mailing list and to Andrew Morton, but haven't had a response. The last successful 5336 install was on 2.6.6-rc3-mm2 under SuSE 9.0 and it works on 9.1.
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Old 05-14-04, 09:55 PM   #24
Talornin
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacruden
4. Offer beta releases to testers (when available).

And as soon as they do release Beta drivers the ranting will start again. People will innstall beta drivers and it will not work and they will whine and bitch. Just like they do now with the 4k/8k stacks.
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Old 05-14-04, 10:16 PM   #25
russofris
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cacruden
It is unlikely that they treat Microsoft Windows in the same manner. I doubt they wait until AFTER the final is released, and then begin to work on the problem.
Considering that their linux drivers are ports of their windows drivers, the MS crowd is in the same boat.

Thank you for your time,
Frank Russo
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Old 05-14-04, 10:43 PM   #26
deadmeat
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Hello!!! This thread is about the newly released 2.6.6 kernal, not 2.6.6-rc or any of the mm's.

What part of this statement don't you understand:
" At present 4k stacks are selectable in config. When the feature has settled
in we should remove the 8k option. This will break the nvidia modules. But
Fedora uses 4k stacks so a new nvidia driver is expected soon"



So, the whole point is that NVidia has to keep up with Kernal development, 4kstacks is now the default and the option to change will soon disappear.

So, for the people who want fedora core2 (and that is me too) you can download the standard kernal source and compile(and have a unsupportable system) or you can wait for the new drivers.

And for all you SUSE, Debian and other distribution of the day people, you can thank the fedora folks for making sure that everything works when you get to 2.6.6.
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Old 05-15-04, 04:21 AM   #27
siddly
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadmeat
Hello!!! This thread is about the newly released 2.6.6 kernal, not 2.6.6-rc or any of the mm's.

What part of this statement don't you understand:
" At present 4k stacks are selectable in config. When the feature has settled
in we should remove the 8k option. This will break the nvidia modules. But
Fedora uses 4k stacks so a new nvidia driver is expected soon"



So, the whole point is that NVidia has to keep up with Kernal development, 4kstacks is now the default and the option to change will soon disappear.

So, for the people who want fedora core2 (and that is me too) you can download the standard kernal source and compile(and have a unsupportable system) or you can wait for the new drivers.

And for all you SUSE, Debian and other distribution of the day people, you can thank the fedora folks for making sure that everything works when you get to 2.6.6.
My post has nothing to do with 4KSTACKS, that's another issue that is fully understood. I have 2.6.6-rc3-mm2 with the 4KSTACKS patch reversed running with 5336 built on SuSE 9.0 and runs on 9.1. The build is failing as shown on 2.6.6-mm kernels. It's either a SuSE 9.1 bug or due to some change in 2.6.6-mm as those are the only things that have changed on this box since I built 2.6.6-rc3-mm2.
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Old 05-15-04, 05:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

@siddly: your problem may be gcc 3.4 related, there are updated patches to fix this.
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Old 05-15-04, 06:58 AM   #29
siddly
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zander
@siddly: your problem may be gcc 3.4 related, there are updated patches to fix this.
Thanks, 5336 now builds. I shall recompile my kernel with REGPARM not set and fire it up later.
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Old 05-15-04, 07:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Ok, I've been searching all over the net, and a lot of people claim that the nvidia driver will work if 4k stacks and regparm are disabled. The thing is for a lot of people this might be true, but for a lot of people it isn't. I've been trying to upgrade to 2.6.6 myself, and no matter if 4k stacks and regparm are enabled or disabled, it just will not work. Period. I get the message that the nvidia module is in an invalid format or something like that. Now, it's not that big of a deal for me, I'm running Gentoo and I'm happy with 2.6.5. It's annoying that a kernel upgrade will screw up graphics drivers, but since 2.6 isn't considered as stable as 2.4 yet, I can accept that. I just hope nVidia will release updated drivers soon.
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