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Old 05-07-04, 01:11 AM   #1
StringCheesian
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Default 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

I've heard that something new in the 2.6.6 kernel (4K stacks, or something like that) breaks the nvidia kernel module. You guys know about that, right? I just thought I'd mention it just in case, since I don't see any discussion about it.

I'm currently using 2.6.5 with Gentoo Linux and the nvidia driver (version 1.0-5336) works great. But I'm thinking about upgrading my kernel, and I'm worried about future compatibility between the linux kernel 2.6 and nivida's drivers...
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Old 05-07-04, 01:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringCheesian
I've heard that something new in the 2.6.6 kernel (4K stacks, or something like that) breaks the nvidia kernel module. You guys know about that, right? I just thought I'd mention it just in case, since I don't see any discussion about it.
Are you kidding me? ;-)
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Old 05-07-04, 03:23 AM   #3
zander
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Look for Fedora Core 2 Test 3 related discussions; long story short: kernels with this highly experimental modification in place, e.g. all current Fedora Core 2 Test 3 kernels, break all released NVIDIA drivers on most configurations.
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Old 05-07-04, 03:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

i'll be very surprised if nvidia dont put 4kstacks support in the next driver release, no doubt they have had flocks of emails about it. Must be fixing alot in the coming driver release because it's taking awhile, hope it's worth it.
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Old 05-07-04, 12:24 PM   #5
cacruden
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zander
Look for Fedora Core 2 Test 3 related discussions; long story short: kernels with this highly experimental modification in place, e.g. all current Fedora Core 2 Test 3 kernels, break all released NVIDIA drivers on most configurations.
"Highly Experimental" -- no not highly experimental, not even experimental anymore.

Beta, yes (for another week and 2 days) -- experimental no .... the 4k stacks work great except for those dam missing video drivers.

The option use-to-say experimental -- but it is not experimental now -- and completely gone in Fedora Core 2 (to be released shortly). They mainline kernel will remove it soon, but I think they are hoping that Fedora bites the bullet first and that nVidia will respond with new drivers BEFORE they take the 8K stacks out as an option.

The change was for increasing performance (especially with Java).
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Old 05-07-04, 06:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Here is a description of the problem from one of Red Hat's kernel devs:

Quote:
So that's why NVIDIA module blows up with 4K stacks..

0xb6ff3 _nv002427rm: sub $0x908,%esp (almost 4K !)
0x7ff93 _nv003775rm: sub $0x64c,%esp ( ~1-2K)
0x21fd3 _nv000899rm: sub $0x648,%esp
f53f: 81 ec 94 05 00 00 sub $0x594,%esp
_nv003402rm: sub $0x594,%esp
0x10247 _nv003354rm: sub $0x520,%esp
0x42633 _nv003333rm: sub $0x4a8,%esp
0x100bb _nv003353rm: sub $0x490,%esp
0x842ff _nv004811rm: sub $0x41c,%esp (1K from here)

With a 4K stack allocation, it's a miracle it works at all even with 8KB stacks. With the right combination of heavy stack using routines, say a system with quite a few iptables rules, and some network layer code, it's very easy for this to overflow the stack.
From every linux-kernel mailing list post I've seen 4K stacks will definately be "enabled" for every Linux 2.6 kernel release starting at Linux 2.6.6. Many kernel devs are using this as a chance to clean up kernel stack useage. Very few opensource drivers have not been updated (or at lease very close to being finished). If the above is correct then its clear NVIDIA was an abuser of the stack to begin with a 4K stacks just made it painfully obvious to all users.

I'm sure NVIDIA is working on fixing their driver but I wouldn't be surprised if it took them a bit of time (not that I have seen the code or done serious driver development).

At the very least making this or a similar thread "sticky" at the top might be a good idea as Fedora Core 2's release (and the eventual upstream 2.6.6 kernel release) are both close.
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Old 05-07-04, 07:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Hi,

if you have read the complete thread, you would now that 4k stack IS highly experimental, that it is not sure, that 2.6.6 will have it (2.6.6-mm will have it certainly) and that there are a lot of cases where this might break and that haven't tested much yet.

And for mregparm=3 are patches at minion.de

Well, I am hoping for a nvidia driver release at the end of may, hopefully with some SiS support...
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Old 05-08-04, 01:33 AM   #8
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

You people are blinded by the fact that nvidia have not released a driver with 4kstacks, if it dont work then dont use it and dont upgrade. If you already know it's not going to work then stay with your current working setup, it's only fedora that has the problem which seem to be all over the place, I ask you to look up the word "Test"
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Old 05-08-04, 05:37 AM   #9
StringCheesian
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuLinUX
You people are blinded by the fact that nvidia have not released a driver with 4kstacks
Actually we're all well aware of that. The issue is, we (at least I) wish it wasn't so and are impatient for the situation to change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuLinUX
If you already know it's not going to work then stay with your current working setup, it's only fedora that has the problem which seem to be all over the place, I ask you to look up the word "Test"
I've been using Gentoo with the latest packages and the very latest kernel, until now. Now I'm stuck at 2.6.5, while many of my fellow Gentoo users are enjoying 2.6.6_rc3 The sooner nvidia's drivers work with 2.6.6, the happier I'll be. You should be able to relate, judging by your sig.

This problem isn't limited to Fedora, it effects any distro for which release candidates of the 2.6.6 kernel are already available, including Gentoo and probably Debian and Slackware.

Last edited by StringCheesian; 05-08-04 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 05-08-04, 06:29 AM   #10
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Uhm, actually the nvidia drivers work with 2.6.6-rc3...

Edit: (As you don't _have_ to enable 4k stack in -rc3)
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Old 05-08-04, 09:23 AM   #11
energyman76b
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Hi,

yes, as long as you are not using mm-kernels, the 2.6.6-rc-candidates are working well with nvidia.

And if you are using mm-kernel, it is your own fault. They are a testing-playground, not even very stable.
And RedHat is not the only distribution, nor is everything RedHat does good or they are a good role model.
They did enough stupid stuff in the last, so let them alone with their forced 4k stack. I bet very soon enough people will have trouble because of that. And than there will be a lot of whining... I hope not here...
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Old 05-08-04, 10:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

The difference between Fedora and some other distributions, is that Fedora now doesn't offer you the possibility to switch between 4K and 8K stacks any more, thereby making it impossible for Nvidia users to use their kernel (with the nvidia driver).

Linux kernel development will not be held up by one binary-only driver, and if there is no proof of 4K stacks breaking things apart from closed source drivers, 4K stacks will be in 2.6.6 and, more importantly, you won't be able to switch to 8K stacks any more, unless you revert by hand, which could turn out to be a real pain.

So, to cut a long story short: there's nothing experimental about this situation, 4K stacks will probably be the standard before you can say "Nvidia please release a new driver and consider making it open source". ;-)
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Old 05-12-04, 04:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

How come there is no official statement from Nvidia on this issue? Are they working on a driver, or should we buy ATI?
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Old 05-12-04, 07:37 AM   #14
energyman76b
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Hi,

Fedora is not the ruling distribution.
They are NOT a role model for others nor the best or most used distribution.

Only because FC is using 4K stacks does not mean that this is a wise decision. And if you have further read the thread on lkml, then you would see that there are a lot of open questions about that.
So, it is not even sure that 4k stacks will apear in vanilla 2.6, why are you trying to panicing the people?

BTW, if you really want to feel betrayed and have a lot of trouble with real and annoying bugs (like tv-watching hanging your box) than you should indeed use ATI.
But if you want decent drivers, nvidias are the best you can currently get.
Think about that.
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Old 05-12-04, 07:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: 2.6.6 kernel breaks NVIDIA driver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hppnq
The difference between Fedora and some other distributions, is that Fedora now doesn't offer you the possibility to switch between 4K and 8K stacks any more, thereby making it impossible for Nvidia users to use their kernel (with the nvidia driver).

Linux kernel development will not be held up by one binary-only driver, and if there is no proof of 4K stacks breaking things apart from closed source drivers, 4K stacks will be in 2.6.6 and, more importantly, you won't be able to switch to 8K stacks any more, unless you revert by hand, which could turn out to be a real pain.

So, to cut a long story short: there's nothing experimental about this situation, 4K stacks will probably be the standard before you can say "Nvidia please release a new driver and consider making it open source". ;-)
What a silly thing to say, of course the kernel dev will not be held up, it's FC thats switching kernel every two minutes. SuSE doesnot need do do this, others are fine but FC is bleeding edge, FC certainly does not lead the way by a long shot. You'll just have to wait without 3d support, it's no big deal.
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