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Old 06-14-04, 10:18 AM   #169
WindtalkerCS
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Yea i mean a hole in my case lol. I am still testing the BIOS, i have been waiting for a hot day so that i know when it is hot what my max is so that i don't overclock it when it is cold, then when it is hot it starts artifacting. Today i will probably finish testing, it is pretty hot, about 80f.
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Old 06-14-04, 05:37 PM   #170
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

after about 5 bios's i started to lose hope that my vivo would ever work with a 5950 bios. Gave up for awhile then recently i gave the Gainward bios a spin and it did in fact give me higher clocks so i figured since u liked the MSI bios it wouldnt hurt at this point to try it. Im glad i did! still get some restart issues not real bad and the clock speeds areent quite as high as gainward but the TVout does work! I seem to get a little flashing when GPU is to high is all.

The only advantage i get from 5950 bios is higher mem clocks and lower temp??? other wise the modded 5900bios is just as fast without quirks. I lose TEMP when i overclock and get black screen on reboot plus flickering when testing clockspeeds .

I wish i could mod my original bios to meet performance of 5950 bios's in ram department. For now even with quirks im stable n fast tho may still tweak some.

EDIT: MSI got really strange in game after work today back to Gainward and Woot TV out works to =)
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Old 06-14-04, 07:03 PM   #171
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindtalkerCS
Yea i mean a hole in my case lol. I am still testing the BIOS, i have been waiting for a hot day so that i know when it is hot what my max is so that i don't overclock it when it is cold, then when it is hot it starts artifacting. Today i will probably finish testing, it is pretty hot, about 80f.
just thought I would ask ? Because if someone say's they have cut a hole in their window in these liberated times you can never be absolutely sure what they mean ? That is also one of the reasons of course why communicating blind can be so interesting ??

So cuts holes in windows as required and uses common sense to introduce environmental factors into overclocking technique ! ............ Interesting !

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Driver, 82.12 :-
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3Dmark06 v102, 2949
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Old 06-14-04, 07:37 PM   #172
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethro
after about 5 bios's i started to lose hope that my vivo would ever work with a 5950 bios. Gave up for awhile then recently i gave the Gainward bios a spin and it did in fact give me higher clocks so i figured since u liked the MSI bios it wouldnt hurt at this point to try it. Im glad i did! still get some restart issues not real bad and the clock speeds areent quite as high as gainward but the TVout does work! I seem to get a little flashing when GPU is to high is all.
What are these restart issues you get ??

Cant be anything directly to do with bios, or it should be easy to tie it down ?

And with some bios's you gain a few MHz on GPU and some others a few on Memory ! But always remember you are overclocking at levels that neither the bios or your card were designed to run !!!

My approach of generally sticking with speeds of 300/500/1000 means I get good performance without overtemperature or stability issues !

Quote:
The only advantage i get from 5950 bios is higher mem clocks and lower temp??? other wise the modded 5900bios is just as fast without quirks. I lose TEMP when i overclock and get black screen on reboot plus flickering when testing clockspeeds .

I wish i could mod my original bios to meet performance of 5950 bios's in ram department. For now even with quirks im stable n fast tho may still tweak some.
Only benefit a 5950u bios gives to GPU is higher volts level, which obviously can easily be done to any lesser 59xx card ! However as you have found out, the 5950u real benefits are more about better temp and memory control at high overclocks. And unfortunately, the parts of the bios software responsible for this is not so easily added to the bios's of the lesser cards ? Which is why we all just flash our cards with 5950u bios's, and reap the benefits first hand !

And the loss of TEMP and black screen problems are very likely caused simply by overclocking too high and overtemping issues ? There are supposed to be thermal and other protection features in the 59xx driver/bios/card ? however who knows what the effects of overclocking cards outside design specs will have on any built-in protective functions ?

Quote:
EDIT: MSI got really strange in game after work today back to Gainward and Woot TV out works to =)
with all this back and forth of bios's at randon intervals, it appears that something strange is amiss with rest of your setup ??
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 06-14-04, 09:21 PM   #173
Jethro
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Black screen when restarting windows, have to reset once or twice to get it to come up, does it less with the gainward bios than any other. Gainward bios back in and alls back to normal. Only problem with thisGainward bios is if i overclock at all from 475/950 the temp guage goes to 0 and stays there until driver reinstall. Otherwise it runs perfect and i even have VIVO!

MSI was good but there seems to be some underlying issue with AGP strengh as it was causing some wierdness at times. It was the first one to give me glitches. I noticed the ASUS bios changed the AGP strengths to even more odd levels. That is what i noticed different from bios to bios anyway.

I havent had stability issues to speak of with any of em truthfully.

Gainward seems to be the ticket in my case just have to leave it @ 475/950 if i want a temp reading. Or crank it to 500/1000 with none Im ok with that
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Old 06-15-04, 02:29 AM   #174
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmor
A known problem of overclocking, especially with Rivatuner, is that the throttling function gets prematurely triggered during the stress tests, and remains in that condition until reset by rebooting ! This means if it has been triggered by the overclocking stress tests, and you don't reboot, then your card will repeatedly throttle down to 375MHz during any performance testing !!! And it doesn't matter if you overclock by 1MHz or 100Mhz, it will always happen with Rivatuner !!

I personally haven't noticed this effect when using coolbits, however that doesn't mean it can't happen. Therefore I always tell everybody who is overclocking, to reboot just in case the throttling function has been triggered ??
Jimmor, you are not changing. I ask you last time to avoid commenting the things you don't understand. Is it so difficult? There are flaws in your logic and undersanding of FX overclocking, causing you to spread misinformation. And I've asked you at least two times to stop doing that.
You may freely ingore my info about problems in your own BIOS mods like you did it with my voltage table/VID related comments on guru3d forum. It's your product and it's your choice, if you don't want to listern to me - you may do whatever you want in these binaries, because you are the only man responsible for the quality of the things you are creating/posting. So if you like to post wrong tutors/mods - it's your choice again, I'm not gonna teach you. But at least don't explain people the things related to my software, if you don't understand them completely. There are a lot of unexperienced users listerning to you and treating your posts as 100% truth. And you're making a lot of troubles for me with such 'tutors'.

It's plain wrong to draw a strict parallel between throttling and LowPower3D performance level (this is the correct internal name for performance level 1, which is often set to 375MHz). There is no throttling perfromance level and both 2D an LowPower3D levels can be called 'throttle' levels because throttling is a process of limiting the maximum available perofrmance level. And the driver's protective mechanisms may limit the maximum performance level with both LowPower3D and 2D clock in case of overheating / internal stress-test fail / undervoltage. The state of limiting performance level either with LowPower3D or with 2D clocks by the driver is called throttling. And this state of driver really requires reboot to be reset. But the thing you are incorrectly calling throttling is just NV3x-specific dynamic clock frequency adjustment mechanism. Iterative switch from 3D to LowPower3D then to 2D mode in some cases is absolutely normal, and there is no need to scare users with 'throttling' untill they don't see that the driver totally refuse to switch to 3D or even LowPower3D mode during running 3D application.
The thing you explain as throtling is absolutely normal power saving technique, having place when the 3D application is still running and the driver detects that the GPU is not heavily loaded so the current (not the maximum!!!) perofrmance level can be safely reduced. It is not any way specific to RivaTuner and definitively it is not a throttling. To see this technique in action just try to run RivaTuner's to monitor clock frequencies then run any OpenGL application, which cerates OpenGL context but doesn't go into fullscreen 3D mode (e.g. GLInfo). You'll see that the driver will first switch to 3D mode during OpenGL context creation, then it will switch to LowPower3D mode after 30 seconds of idle, then it will completely switch to 2D mode. It is normal, and it is not a throttling.
You may also see the same 'throttling' when testing the clocks via Coolbits. Just run any Direct3D application, which initializes Direct3D interfaces and doen't go into fullscreen mode (e.g. start 3DMark2003 application to see 3DMark window but don't start the benchmark/demo). Then test clocks via Coolbits without closing 3DMark. The driver will detect that 3D application is running and GPU is stressed and bump clocks to 3D level during the test then drop them to LowPower3D then to 2D mode again. And it is absolutely normal too.
To see the real throttling try to boost core clocks a way beyond it's limit with CoolBits (dangerous). If it won't hang during internal clock test and the driver will be able to recover after agressive overclocking, it may limit clocks with LowPower3D/2D mode until the next reboot. This is the thing that should be called trottling.
So the only thing users should care about, it that the system doesn’t switch to LowPower3D/2D mode during 3D.

P.S. And please don't turn this posting in 'Help, he is trolling/flaming me' discussion. If you're aged man, you should understand that you're responisble for the things you are posting in the forums.
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Old 06-15-04, 05:52 AM   #175
interceptor_nl
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

just an thought

i have an sparkle fx5900xt and it does run perfectly at 300/550/960
and it does throttle so wouldnt the throttle suggest that it has an thermal something somewere?

if so is there anyway to activate its function (sparkle doesnt have that they say).

regards,

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Old 06-15-04, 05:57 AM   #176
rewt
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

improper throttling isn't always caused by high temps. it could just be the GPU is being stressed too much.
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Old 06-15-04, 06:38 AM   #177
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unwinder
Jimmor, you are not changing. I ask you last time to avoid commenting the things you don't understand. Is it so difficult? There are flaws in your logic and undersanding of FX overclocking, causing you to spread misinformation. And I've asked you at least two times to stop doing that.
.
Unwinder, I'm not even going to bother reading your post !!!! Since you obviously didn't learn anything from reading any of mine ?????

get over yourself !!!

Rivatuner, during overclocking testing, has proven now hundreds of times to trigger "throttling" function ! In also happens in such a way that a computer must be rebooted before gaming or performance testing or a persons card is guaranteed to throttle for wrong reasons !

The fact that it happens is very observable and repeatable !! And it doesn't matter if the overclocking is for 5MHz or 100MHz, triggering of throttle back to 375MHz happens ! And if you actually remember, I mentioned to you that the diff I could observe was that Rivatuner was doing a 3D switching during stress testing whereas coolbits wasn't, and just maybe this diff was what mattered ? But thats for you to determine, not me ! And as I also always said, with my setup, coolbits doesn't cause any problems ! I can overclock and test or run games without rebooting, and without any throttling or whatever you want to call it happening !!!

I have even explained that just maybe it is some design flaw with the Nvidia driver/card/bios, which your vast experience of nvidia products and use of rivatuner should be able to identify and overcome ?? But for some reason, you just don't wan't to know or help ???

So for the record, and it will never change until I can use rivatuner without pre-mature triggering throttling function, I will continue to comment on what I can readily observe especially if it is repeatable !!! And not just by me !!!

EDIT:

and also just for the record, I always use the rivatuner hardware monitor to observe in realtime just what is happening with speeds, including throttling, during gaming and/or testing !!
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.

Last edited by jimmor; 06-15-04 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 06-15-04, 07:30 AM   #178
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by rewt
improper throttling isn't always caused by high temps. it could just be the GPU is being stressed too much.
thats isnt the case here max on my core seems 570 (stable and no artifact's)

i think that an to high memory clock can result in throttling back but that sure aint the case with my card weird as it might sound but it even runs at 1.03 ghz on (mem)

so my 950 i now use couldnt be the weird problem i see (using riva tuner to monitor) in the last 15 sec's of the bench it always goes back to core 500 instead of the 550 i normaly use in gameplay (nfsu unreal3 etc etc)

just was hoping the temp monitoring could be activated or something else that explain me why that happens only in 3dmark03?

also am i just lucky or is has sparkle such good mem? and core?
everywhere i read i dont see most cards to run this highly

anyway it must be seeing the temps otherwise it would throtlle and just freeze or am i so wrong to think that?

regards,

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Old 06-15-04, 07:53 AM   #179
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by interceptor_nl
so my 950 i now use couldnt be the weird problem i see (using riva tuner to monitor) in the last 15 sec's of the bench it always goes back to core 500 instead of the 550 i normaly use in gameplay (nfsu unreal3 etc etc)

just was hoping the temp monitoring could be activated or something else that explain me why that happens only in 3dmark03?

also am i just lucky or is has sparkle such good mem? and core?
everywhere i read i dont see most cards to run this highly

anyway it must be seeing the temps otherwise it would throtlle and just freeze or am i so wrong to think that?

regards,

interceptor_nl
the 500 you say it always goes back to, is this bios stock 3D speed or throttling speed ??

also external temp monitoring is generally not available in XT type cards ? Maybe the designers just didn't think it was necessary for a card which is supposed to run at 300/390/700 ???

From my experience, Sparkle are generally average in terms of manufacturers of XT cards ? If yours happens to have very good GPU and memory chips, then take it as a bonus and enjoy the benefits !!

the fact that your problem mostly happens with 3dmark03 doesn't surprise me, as this program puts a lot of stress on a graphics card ! And regardless how good a GPU is fitted to your card, with GPU volts at a normal 3D level of 1.4v, the 550MHz overclock you are using is way too high !!! It is obviously triggering some safety function which is causing it to step speeds back ??

However, if the GPU at 500MHz is the bios stock 3D speed, then why not just change it to 550 and see if stepping back still occurs ??
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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Old 06-15-04, 08:00 AM   #180
jimmor
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Default Re: Basic FX59xxx bios changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jethro
Black screen when restarting windows, have to reset once or twice to get it to come up, does it less with the gainward bios than any other. Gainward bios back in and alls back to normal. Only problem with thisGainward bios is if i overclock at all from 475/950 the temp guage goes to 0 and stays there until driver reinstall. Otherwise it runs perfect and i even have VIVO!

MSI was good but there seems to be some underlying issue with AGP strengh as it was causing some wierdness at times. It was the first one to give me glitches. I noticed the ASUS bios changed the AGP strengths to even more odd levels. That is what i noticed different from bios to bios anyway.

I havent had stability issues to speak of with any of em truthfully.

Gainward seems to be the ticket in my case just have to leave it @ 475/950 if i want a temp reading. Or crank it to 500/1000 with none Im ok with that
I take it all this bios wierdness has been checked against using other drivers ?? As I have said many times, I generally stick with 53.03 because it is very stable in all my uses, no matter what bios or overclocks I have used !!

but with your setup, if the Gainward currently works "best" then it makes excellent sense to select and use it over all others !!
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Intel P4 3.2 @ 3.85GHz (ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe)
BFG 6800GS (16x1,6vp) @ 300/430/1200.

Driver, 82.12 :-
Aquamark3, 75039
Codecreatures1, 90.8
3Dmark05 v120, 6195
3Dmark03 v360, 14334
3Dmark06 v102, 2949
3Dmark2001se v330, 23793.
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