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Old 06-28-04, 04:18 PM   #1
ChrisRay
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Default Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

I have heard alot of people have been discrediting far cry issues for the Nv3x path to be a FP16 precision issue. Well From my experiences it's not. Please Follow me here Several Comparison need to be made. All shots were done @ 1024x768 with 4x AA/16x Performance AF.

Pipe Scene: This has been a popular comparision because it seems to show one pipe being "More Shiny" Than the other, So I thought investigating whether this is actually a FP16 issue or not would be relevent.


NV3x Mode






FP16 R300 Mode







FP32 R300 Mode







Pipe Scene Conclusion: Moving from NV3x Mode to FP16 R300 mode has the most dramatic increase in Quality. Small differences can be seen moving from FP16 r300 mode to FP32. Unfortunately it seems the SM 3.0 path has less "Shiny" pipes than the FP32 and FP16 path. There is a large performance enhancement but there IQ is that of the Nv3x path








Floor Scene: The dreaded banded floor scene. Many have believed that the issues with the floor scene revolve around FP16 precision. This does not appear to be the case.



NV3x Mode









R300 FP16 Mode









R300 FP32 Mode










NV3x Mode






R300 FP16 Mode







R300 FP32 Mode









Floor Conclusion: As you can see the differences between FP 16 and FP32 seem to be rather marginal. However the differences between NV3x mode to FP16 are instrumental. The NV40 SM 3.0 Path also looks identical in this case.



P.S. Special thanks to Jakup and Fivefeet, for inspiring me to investigate this issue further.
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Last edited by ChrisRay; 07-02-04 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 06-28-04, 04:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
P.S. Special thanks to Jakup and Fivefeet, for inspiring me to investigate this issue further.
Nice shots and comparisions!!! And an extra w00t for mentioning me!!
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Old 06-28-04, 04:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Good comparisons
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Old 06-28-04, 04:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Thanks for the good short sweet summarization, Chris,
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Old 06-28-04, 05:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

What type of performance difference are you seeing Chris? From the using the Nv3x or R300 paths. It seems a lot of people are stating that running the R300 path results in a 20-30 percent performance loss. I just haven't seen any concrete proof of it. And from what I'm seeing on my end, there doesn't seem to be that much of a performance hit at all going from the Nv3x path to the R300 path.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivefeet8
What type of performance difference are you seeing Chris? From the using the Nv3x or R300 paths. It seems a lot of people are stating that running the R300 path results in a 20-30 percent performance loss. I just haven't seen any concrete proof of it. And from what I'm seeing on my end, there doesn't seem to be that much of a performance hit at all going from the Nv3x path to the R300 path.

My performance differences have been marginal at best, As a matter of fact FP16 Mode seems faster than the Nv3x mode to me. Thought I have only compared these "two" spots and levels.


Fp32 mode seems to be roughly equivalent to Nv3x mode for me in "these" levels.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

hmm... Ok Chris, looking at your screenshots it seems you didn't force FULL High Quality Lighting. The glowing glass doesn't look like it should. It should look like this:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...8&postcount=12

To get the FULL effects, you need to decompress(winzip) both the shaders1.pak and shaders.pak files into a 'shaders' folder. Then compress that "shaders" folder into a new shaders.zip(rename to shaders.pak). Place the new shaders.pak file into the FCdata folder. Delete the old shaders1.pak, or move it somewhere out of the Far Cry directory.

The original shaders1.pak and shaders.pak are located in the FCdata folder in the Far Cry directory.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

So crytek should make the FP16 R300 mode the default for NV3X in patch 1.2. That would solve all the IQ issues, and have virtually no performance loss. If they were smart.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Yes, I also noticed that his glass didnt look quite like mine once I forced the R3XX mode... I figured maybe I just did it wrong..heh
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Old 06-28-04, 05:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivefeet8
hmm... Ok Chris, looking at your screenshots it seems you didn't force FULL High Quality Lighting. The glowing glass doesn't look like it should. It should look like this:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...8&postcount=12

To get the FULL effects, you need to decompress(winzip) both the shaders1.pak and shaders.pak files into a 'shaders' folder. Then compress that "shaders" folder into a new shaders.zip(rename to shaders.pak). Place the new shaders.pak file into the FCdata folder. Delete the old shaders1.pak, or move it somewhere out of the Far Cry directory.

The original shaders1.pak and shaders.pak are located in the FCdata folder in the Far Cry directory.


Thats interesting, I merely used the FP16/FP32 Patch from Tommti Systems to illustrate the differences between the FP precision modes.

Is Forcing Higher Lighting going to work on the Nv3x pathway? because if not, is that a good way to illustrate the difference between FP16/FP32?

I'm curious your thoughts on this because. The main purpose of this test was to show that FP16 was not the cause of the artifacts seen in the Nv3x mode.

Dont mis interpret the results of these tests as a performance comparison of any kind. They were meant to show that the Nv3x Mode, is responcible for Lighting issues in Far Cry. Not FP16.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
Thats interesting, I merely used the FP16/FP32 Patch from Tommti Systems to illustrate the differences between the FP precision modes.

Is Forcing Higher Lighting going to work on the Nv3x pathway? because if not, is that a good way to illustrate the difference between FP16/FP32?
I'm not sure either, but that is the only way to get the glass and maybe some other effects to look like it does on a R300. But who really knows what it's suppose to look like. Maybe the Nv3x has it right.

Anyways, I do agree with you from my own experience with Far Cry. FP16 wasn't the culprit of those banding issues. I do wonder what it is though that causes them.

Hmm. Maybe if we tried the FP16 R300 mode on a real Nv3x.
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Old 06-28-04, 05:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Far Cry, Nv3x, verses FP16, verses FP32 (56k Warning)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivefeet8
I'm not sure either, but that is the only way to get the glass and maybe some other effects to look like it does on a R300. But who really knows what it's suppose to look like. Maybe the Nv3x has it right.

Anyways, I do agree with you from my own experience with Far Cry. FP16 wasn't the culprit of those banding issues. I do wonder what it is though that causes them.

Hmm. Maybe if we tried the FP16 R300 mode on a real Nv3x.


Ok, So long as we're understanding each other on the intention of the test, I'd have to "look" into the higher lighting. But as you can see from just these results. FP16 isnt causing the results for the Floor.

At moment. Not trying to "immitate" The r300 mode fully. Just distinguish the difference between FP16, FP32, and Nv3x
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