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Old 02-01-05, 11:25 AM   #625
Nestid
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

Hi guys,

Here is what happened to me and my 6800.
I had (yes, I said 'had' !) the freezing problem and thought it was a problem between my 6800 and my NF3 mobo.

After having tried almost everything, I decided to buy an ATI card. So I bought a X800 XT one and put in into my computer.
Impossible to boot Windows with the drivers installed ! I tried the card on another pc, which started without problem.

After this trial, I was sure that my mobo had a problem. I bought another mobo (yeah, 2 mobos and 2 graphic cards, I spent a lot of money because of that !), a KV8 pro rev 1.1 from ABIT.
And you can imagine : everything is working fine !!! My 6800 can run at 370/875 (even at 400/900, but with artefacts), no more freezes, and of course the X800 is running fine too.

So it was a problem with the AGP port. Which one ? I don't know
Maybe a voltage problem, but hardware (I tried to increase it with the bios).

I RMA'd my MSI mobo (a platinum one with high quality japanese components !!! ) and I enjoy my 6800 (I sold the X800 card too).
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Old 02-01-05, 03:36 PM   #626
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

Hi Nestid.

It is because your new Abit KV8 is a Via chipset based motherboard. This freezing problem is happening ONLY in nForce3 based motherboards.
There would be other problems and freezes but the damn 10 seconds random freezing issue only pops up in nForce 3 motherboards.

You would think...nVidia (chipset) + nVidia (svga)=way to go safe...oh well...you wouldn't go more wrong.

And there is no explanation from MSI/nVidia...bad move nVidia guys...very bad move.
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Old 02-02-05, 06:13 AM   #627
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

I do not agree with you, Kha...
If what you say were right, only NF3 owners would have problem. But it is not the case : http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...highlight=poll
As you can see, the majority is NF3 mobo indeed, but it happens on other chipsets too.

My experience is that my NF3 mobo had this problem because of an AGP problem. With X800 it was not able to boot anyway, which is not a chipset problem (I hope !).

A lot of people corrected voltage (AGP voltage, new PSU, flashing 6800 with upper voltage...) and it worked !!! Maybe NF3 is more sensitive to fluctuating/low voltage than other chipsets ?
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Old 02-02-05, 08:07 AM   #628
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

So far I have tried the DFI LanParty UT3, NF8, and MSI Neo2 Plat. All boards lock up in Doom3 with my 6800 Ultra overclocked. I've been running an Epox 9NDA3+ recently. So tonight, I tried running my card at 455/1182. Guess what: no lockups in Doom3! Now I'm not interested in running my card overclocked so I only tested Aquamark too, but no problem there.

This board I got was made in Nov. 2004, so it has a real late NF3 chipset. It's possible the problem has been fixed, but you'd have to get a real late MSI board (s/n 0412 or later) to get the same chipset.

BTW, this Epox board is a killer overclocker. The VDIMM mod is easy to do. I'm currently running a 3500+ Winnie at 306x9 (2754 mhz), 166 divider for 250 on the ram, which is 2x512 XMS3500 at 2-2-2-5 using only 3.28 VDIMM . Good for a 30 sec SuperPI 1M time. Cooling is a Corsair HC200. The ram is actually Memtest clean at 252. Not bad for 3.28 volts. Better yet, the VTT tracks as I can bench everything in 3D, including all four 'Marks.

Epox boards just XMS3500 .
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Old 02-02-05, 01:06 PM   #629
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

I don't know what is producing these freezes really but Doom 3 and every Open/GL game are running OK in my rig, overclocked or not. Only pauses are experienced in Direct 3D based games nad when i overclock the GPU.
We would fill a book with all theories.
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Old 02-02-05, 01:36 PM   #630
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

I don't think is is a voltage or AGP slot problem. If it were. it would happen in OpenGL too, not just DirectX.

And the search continues...
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Old 02-03-05, 05:34 AM   #631
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

There are only 5 possibilities for me (please correct me if I am wrong). A graphic card pb (1), a graphic driver problem (2), a mobo driver one(3), a mobo bios one (4) or a mobo component one(5).

(1) My 6800 had the pb, and now is working perfectly. So it was not a graphic card pb (for me at least, but I saw some users that changed their mobo and got the same result : 6800 works).
(2) how do you explain than with the same graphic drivers (67.03) my 6800 works fine on one mobo and not on the other ? If there were a driver pb, all this driver users should have the same pb, right ?
So I suppose we can eliminate this possibility.
(3) how much 6800 owners use the same mobo driver without any pb? same than (1), so I eliminate this one too
(4) how much 6800 owners use the same mobo bios without any pb (I tried 1.3, 1.4, 1.56 ones) ? same than (1), so I eliminate this one too
(5) The part I suppose is responsible : components. It can be NF3 chipset, or other components on the mobo.

That are the facts that we should take care of :
- If PSU is not powerful enough, we have the freeze pb. Changing PSU help sometimes...
- If we increase frequencies, the card needs more power and we have the same pb !
- If we flash the bios upping voltage on the graphic card we sometimes correct the pb.
- If we increase AGP voltage in the bios, we sometimes correct the pb.
- If we disable throttle on the graphic card (so no more voltage switching), we sometimes correct the pb.
We can reproduce the problem with a low voltage input, and correct it by increasing voltage. There are too much coļncidences (is it an english word ? ) to ignore them.

Another fact that we could consider : the freezing problem appears mostly (all the time ?) with new GPU only, which use more power.
Maybe this problem is because mobo manufacturers did not anticipate and modified AGP power supply for those new GPU ?
Maybe it is because of AGP specifications that limit current for the AGP port, and with those GPU we reached this limit ? (so some cards are not fully AGP compliant ?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2thez
I don't think is is a voltage or AGP slot problem. If it were. it would happen in OpenGL too, not just DirectX.

And the search continues...
The search is in progress (IMO).

A good question indeed : why D3D and not OpenGL ??? (even if sometimes OpenGL has the pb)

I think that D3D uses some features that are not used with OpenGL, and those features (Fastwrite for example ?) can use more power on the mobo. I suppose it could be a reason.

An expert advice would be welcome

PS : please excuse my poor english that limits what I would like to explain. I hope it is clear enough to be understood
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Last edited by Nestid; 02-03-05 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 02-03-05, 10:20 AM   #632
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

alright, after testing for about 4 days of having the computer on i have found that my old PSU poses no event of freezing, whilst when i change to the APPARENTLY better Tagen 480W i have crashes. so, hey, its the PSU. but, i am going to test out another PSU from a friend latter on to see if this works. any input on this??

- also i was considering using two PSUs at one time. it sounds ridiculous but to have the tagen480W JUST power the G Card and my older PSU to power the rest - is this feasible? (i have heard that you need to turn them on simultaneouly?)
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Old 02-03-05, 05:55 PM   #633
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

I have five rigs, and over a dozen motherboards: P4, P3, NF2, S754, S939, RDRAM, DDR. I use three diff types of PSUs. I have X800XT PE, 6800 Ultra, 9800 Pro. What do I think? It's the NF3 chipset.

I only get the freeze problem overclocking an Ultra, generally in OpenGL, on the MSI Neo2 Plat, NF8, and DFI UT3, all NF3. I checked my 9NDA3+, it has a 0445 Korea NF3 chipset (week 45 of 2004). The MSI has a 0405 Taiwan chipset. The later chipset runs BH-5 well compared to the earlier one, as guys on Extreme noted (anything >0440). So significant changes can be made to the chipset.

I'm not trying to make a point, as it's obviously not a big deal to me. I can always run a different card/rig and I don't run my cards overclocked anyway (except for an X800XT that can do PE . So this is my 2 cents.

As for OpenGL versus D3D: I can't make it 5' through the IL-2 demo loop in OpenGL, but no problems with Far Cry. Doom3 demo is instant lock. So go figure .

Next time I have my 9NDA3+ installed, I will try a whole repertoire of 3D.
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Old 02-04-05, 07:01 AM   #634
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevor
It's the NF3 chipset.
I think so, but it is more complex than Nestid points to.
Temperature is influencing too in this issue, and vram clock / core clock combinations too.
First, at stock overclocked setting 425/1100 i was getting constant freezes art 3DMark 2003 first run. These freeze was gone by downclocking to 400/1100 nVidia reference values. If i overclock to 425/1150 the freeze is happening less frequently, it is happening at second run of 3DMark 2003 (heat issue?).
At 410/1140 all is fine.

Too much components in the equation...
PSU
VGA Bios Mod (vcore, throtling, 2D/3D volts)
Core Clock
VRam Clock
Motherboard
Temperature
nForce 3 chipset
3D technology (Direct 3D/OpenGL)

I agree with Nestid thinking PSU/AGP volts are a key in this problem but, the common component at all it is nForce 3.
Anyway, there are so much people with the problem and nVidia "is in mute mode". I think we will never know the root of the problem. I'm out of clues at this moment, the only fix i haven't tried yet it is changing my PSU but others did it and this did not fix the problem either.
I'm glad we were able to find some fix because i can't imagine the frustration of get all these freezes with an all new (and expensive i would add) rig.

Thank you all.
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Old 02-07-05, 05:05 AM   #635
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

ok then, the problem was my "new" PSU all along. Tagen 480W 28A was the problem. which means i am going to have to run my 6800gt on my 350W (the bare minimum) with 16A! but it does run fine. i have underclocked my CPU slightly FROM its overclocked state i.e. it is still overclocked. and i have gt at stock settings. gaming performance is still fine. but what the hell am i going to do with this PSU. ill probably get a cheaper PSU ~~ 380 - 400W 18A - 20A. also, i have taked out some redundant peripherals - two optical drives and a 60gb hdd. i am not impressed with tagen AT ALL
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XFX nVidia GeForce 6800gt (437/1160 highest*)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster 5300 5.1 Surround Sound
WriteMaster DVD-RW, NEC DVD-RW, MSI CD-RW
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Old 02-07-05, 05:11 PM   #636
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Default Re: GeForce 6800 and random freezes

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3246251196
ok then, the problem was my "new" PSU all along. Tagen 480W 28A was the problem. which means i am going to have to run my 6800gt on my 350W (the bare minimum) with 16A! but it does run fine. i have underclocked my CPU slightly FROM its overclocked state i.e. it is still overclocked. and i have gt at stock settings. gaming performance is still fine. but what the hell am i going to do with this PSU. ill probably get a cheaper PSU ~~ 380 - 400W 18A - 20A. also, i have taked out some redundant peripherals - two optical drives and a 60gb hdd. i am not impressed with tagen AT ALL
You know the Tagen is the same as OCZ, without the fancy pots at the end. I was in a store in Japan and the case and cabling are identical.
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