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Old 07-26-04, 10:14 PM   #13
Clay
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleshonbone
Of course I am only a member here, and I respect your decisions when I'm at your house -
I wish more people would take a cue from you. I appreciate how you went about suggesting this, really, I do. I don't agree with you and that's fine...I can see your perspective but we prefer to not entertain such a forum here. For one, the Politcal Forum does get heated enough as it is. To go even further isn't really necessary since (as you've pointed out) other sites do entertain these 'no hold barred' forums and those are enough for anyone to go waste their time in.
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Old 07-26-04, 11:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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Originally Posted by Clay
I wish more people would take a cue from you. I appreciate how you went about suggesting this, really, I do. I don't agree with you and that's fine...I can see your perspective but we prefer to not entertain such a forum here. For one, the Politcal Forum does get heated enough as it is. To go even further isn't really necessary since (as you've pointed out) other sites do entertain these 'no hold barred' forums and those are enough for anyone to go waste their time in.
Actually, now that I've read your replies, I understand why you wouldn't - I guess it would actually attract and encourage negative attention more than anything else...

Anyways, I would like to say thank you for not only yours, but all of the mod's level-headed and accomodating replies here to me - I understand what a chore it can be as I used to admin a QII site back in the day - more often than not 2 seconds after someone was made a mod their head would immediately become filled with hot air and they would be just as bad as some of the members...

Maybe that's why I keep coming here, it's just too bad there isn't more traffic in the ATI forums - there seems to be a decent set of people over there who have the uncommon ability to discuss things without being disrespectful - I guess in part we as members should thank you guys for maintaining such an environment.

Thanks again for hearing me out and not making me feel like an insignificant pud in the process - it speaks volumes about the quality operation that you guys have going.

Jason
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Old 07-26-04, 11:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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Originally Posted by fleshonbone
Actually, now that I've read your replies, I understand why you wouldn't - I guess it would actually attract and encourage negative attention more than anything else...

Anyways, I would like to say thank you for not only yours, but all of the mod's level-headed posts - I understand what a chore it can be as I used to admin a QII site back in the day - more often than not 2 seconds after someone was made a mod their head would immediately become filled with hot air and they would be just as bad as some of the members...

Maybe that's why I keep coming here, it's just too bad there isn't more traffic in the ATI forums - there seems to be a decent set of people over there who have the uncommon ability to discuss things without being disrespectful - I guess in part we as members should thank you guys for maintaining such an environment.

Jason
Man you better cut it out or I might be moved to send you a box of cookies or something. Seriously, all of us mods appreciate feedback such as yours. Being a fellow moderator (ah Quake II website, I bet that was a blast ) it's neat to hear your thoughts. Modding is a lot of work (not physical of course but mentally and time consuming) and we all really do try our best here (so that MikeC doesn't smack us down with a trout) . I'm glad you find some members to discuss ATI related things with well here. With guys like you joining in I'm confident that it will grow or at least remain a pleasant palce for discussion.
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Old 07-27-04, 12:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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Originally Posted by netviper13
We already do: it's called the political forum when I get into it with UDawg
I was about to say that...though IMO Udawg sometimes intends to be funnier, then... Umm, not gonna say it

Yeah we've had/have our disagreements when it comes to politics, but he's an OK guy
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Old 07-27-04, 03:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

We need a flame forum BAD here. I will own it.
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Old 07-27-04, 04:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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I only asked because I think that when a site has a flame-only forum, it keeps the trash out of the other forums.
What happens in a Flames forum doesn't tend to STAY in a Flames Forums.

Trust me ...

Hell, the Political Forum has either snapped or put a strain on friendships here as it is!

Don't need to piss more kerosene on the fire ...

Quote:
We need a flame forum BAD here. I will own it.
My years of experiance in moderating a Flames Forum in the early/late 1990s on a college BBS ... is calling you a dreamer!!
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Old 07-27-04, 02:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoSy
What happens in a Flames forum doesn't tend to STAY in a Flames Forums.

Trust me ...

Hell, the Political Forum has either snapped or put a strain on friendships here as it is!

Don't need to piss more kerosene on the fire ...



My years of experiance in moderating a Flames Forum in the early/late 1990s on a college BBS ... is calling you a dreamer!!
Well, that's the point where some will disagree - I asked because I believe that people are aware of the fact that they have entered a flame forum, thereby making their skin a bit thicker per say - on the contrary, when someone flames in a no flame, normal type forum, it is usually always taken personally.

I understand the pros and cons of both - it highly depends on the wit and sensitivities of the members as well (in order for a flame forum to work) - no big deal either way - I'm sure we'll all be busy with D3 and HL2 soon (hopefully) anyways,

Cheers,

Flesh
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Old 07-27-04, 05:10 PM   #20
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Talking Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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I asked because I believe that people are aware of the fact that they have entered a flame forum, thereby making their skin a bit thicker per se.
Not entirely.

They might be aware of that fact for a portion of time but, as time passes, they forget to be aware of the fact. The proof is our Political Forum: at the onset, it was filled with people who were not only aware of the "have a thicker skin" admonishment, but also participated in spirted debate. Those debates would stay in the Political Forum, too. But, as time went by, those debates bled into other forums, the spirted debates are virtually non-existant, and it's a Flames Forum by proxy to an extent.

My problem with a Flames Forum is simple: THEY SUCK! From a pure quality standpoint alone! Not to toot my own horn, but after the years I've spent moderating one on a BBS with my "Forum Nazi" rules, I've simply seen all there is to see! All the Flames Forums I've seen since then are soooo friggin' weakfished in comparison to what I dealt with, they shouldn't even bare "Flames" in their name -- they should instead be called "Snappy Putdowns & Insults For The Wussified ... From The Wussified!" or the Romper-Room equivilent -- "Whinez & Gwipes"

There is an ART involved in Flaming and 99.9 % of the people today on other boards trying to refine their "craft" are simply wasting their time -- they lack it to begin with! They are to Flames as William Hung is to ......... ahah, see? Now, you get the picture!

There should be a fundamental rule in every Flames Forum: If you don't have at least a 10th grade level in Reading, Writing, Spelling, and Grammar -- GET OUT!!!!
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Old 07-27-04, 05:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoSy
Not entirely.

They might be aware of that fact for a portion of time but, as time passes, they forget to be aware of the fact. The proof is our Political Forum: at the onset, it was filled with people who were not only aware of the "have a thicker skin" admonishment, but also participated in spirted debate. Those debates would stay in the Political Forum, too. But, as time went by, those debates bled into other forums, the spirted debates are virtually non-existant, and it's a Flames Forum by proxy to an extent.

My problem with a Flames Forum is simple: THEY SUCK! From a pure quality standpoint alone! Not to toot my own horn, but after the years I've spent moderating one on a BBS with my "Forum Nazi" rules, I've simply seen all there is to see! All the Flames Forums I've seen since then are soooo friggin' weakfished in comparison to what I dealt with, they shouldn't even bare "Flames" in their name -- they should instead be called "Snappy Putdowns & Insults For The Wussified ... From The Wussified!" or the Romper-Room equivilent -- "Whinez & Gwipes"

There is an ART involved in Flaming and 99.9 % of the people today on other boards trying to refine their "craft" are simply wasting their time -- they lack it to begin with! They are to Flames as William Hung is to ......... ahah, see? Now, you get the picture!

There should be a fundamental rule in every Flames Forum: If you don't have at least a 10th grade level in Reading, Writing, Spelling, and Grammar -- GET OUT!!!!
Thanks for the bolding of "They Suck!!", I don't know if I would've gotten your point otherwise

I have modded quite a few forums in my day as well, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

One question - you said you employed "Forum Nazi" rules on a flame-only forums? A forum nazi is someone who strictly abides by, or enforces the rules. A flame forum is a forum with little to no rules - I don't get it....maybe that's why your experience with flame forums didn't go over too well?

Thanks for your time.
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Old 07-27-04, 10:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

Please please please don't create a 'Flame' forum here. Although I think it can certainly its merits, I just don't think it would fit in well at this site.
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Old 07-28-04, 12:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Can we have a flame forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
Please please please don't create a 'Flame' forum here. Although I think it can certainly its merits, I just don't think it would fit in well at this site.
It ain't gonna happen. Don't worry.
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Old 07-28-04, 05:34 PM   #24
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Talking Re: Can we have a flame forum?

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One question - you said you employed "Forum Nazi" rules on a flame-only forums? A forum nazi is someone who strictly abides by, or enforces the rules. A flame forum is a forum with little to no rules - I don't get it....maybe that's why your experience with flame forums didn't go over too well?
Two rules I didn't make were BBS wide directly from the Administrators. I couldn't change them even if I wanted to ...

Quote:
(1) Room Aides (aka me) and Sysops (aka BBS Admins) could not be the target of Flames. Violations result in a 3-day kick for the Forum for the first offense, a week long kick for the second, and third offense results in "twitted" (aka BANNED from the BBS period).
(2) Room Aides and Sysops can not participate in Flames. Room Aides of the Flames forum who participate in Flaming are "twitted" - end of story. Sysops who Flame are replaced.
These two rules were a double-edged sword. On one hand, I couldn't be target of Flames but I couldn't engage in Flaming either. Fighting the later urge was awfully hard sometimes, I can assure you. On the surface, you might think these rules suck but in actuality, they're damn good and makes the Sysops job easier. They don't have to worry about "politics" being played against them and/or Room Aides developing "conflicts of interest" between guests, thus dragging the forum AND the BBS down as a whole. Before these two rules were instituted, the Sysops would be forced to replace the Room Aide every month or two and a Sysop every 3-6 months because of it. They were about to have a vote on deleting the forum and I came forward and said, "Don't delete the forum! Just institute rules where Sysops and RAs can not be the target of Flames or engage in Flaming period and hand the room over to me!" They did that very thing. When I changed the Room Info (the only area of the forum I was allowed to Flame but only by using generalizations), I added the following new rules ...

Quote:
(3) If you don't have at least a 10th grade level in Writing & Language, don't bother. I would've extended this to include Spelling and Grammar but the Sysops say that's going a bit too far (Makes ya think, doesn't it? Especially after seeing the "Help" files, eh?!?) Anyway, I make this rule for your own good -- you'll need at least a 10th grade Writing & English comprehension level to follow the next rule ...

(4) Topical Flames shall consist of a mimimum of 2 paragraphs of 7 sentances or more. You want to Flame in my room? Then you'll have to put a hell of lot more thought and originality into your material than you intend to. Just because you cut-and-pasted the latest Dennis Miller tirade (with some artistic license, of course -- swapping some names around and yada, yada) or your one liner has an "F-bomb" or two doesn't make it a Flame. It's a piddly, weakassed insult that any 3rd grader can do. This is a college BBS so show us how well your parents' or taxpayers' money is being put towards that English major! Deal?

(5) No flaming another person's posting style or length of posts. Why? Because it's weakfished and always results in an endless circle-jerk of wussified flaming. If you don't have time to read, you don't have the tools in your attic to write. And you'll need all three of those tools -- reading, writing, and time -- to languish here!

(6) If you find your posts deleted or yourself kicked, you didn't follow the above rules. This is FLAMES -- not Romper Room! You can't expect to be the next Mike Royko or Rush Limbaugh with such unenlightening BS coming out of your keyboard. Bring your brain next time ...
The result? I got some Flames in my Mail from about two dozen users because my "Forum Nazi" rules forced them to actually think first before wasting their own and everyone else's time. They wanted a Forum where they can just say the usual responses (e.g "F--k you, noob" or "Your Mama etc.) back forth all day long and I wasn't gonna have it. I wanted to raise the quality bar -- seperate the s--t from the Shinola; the weak from the strong! The responses in the actual Flames Forum far outweighed all those Flames I got in my Mailbox, thus I consider the venture a success. Every night I logged in, I had over 90 posts to look over and the majority of them followed the rules. A few of those people would actually post "War & Peace" length manifestos that just dripped with the vilest invective known to man and yet contained a minimal use of expletives!

Now, that takes TALENT!

After that stint, I prefer TALENT in a Flames Forum -- not reactionary one-liners and dreck! However, those appreciable years of moderating a Flames Forum have burned me out on 'em and I feel that it's hard to re-create something that's simply not re-creatable. It's sorta like my pre-1989 pot-smoking days -- yeah, I miss 'em ... but not enough to warrant a toke after being clean for so long. I won't Moderate another Flames Forum -- been there, done that, it was a wild ride while it lasted!
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