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Old 08-17-04, 09:38 PM   #49
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

at least mods are still very creative in my opinion...anyone seen "golden years" for ut2004??

http://www.planetunreal.com/gy/

i don't know what i'm looking forward to more, half life 2, or its mods
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Old 08-18-04, 12:47 AM   #50
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
And BTW, I have one of the most unique and innovative ideas ever seen in a first-person game that I'm thinking of turning into a Half-life 2 mod
I'm confused. Is it going to be a first person shooter or just a first person game? Cause, well... Morrowind is first person as well, and it's not a hell of a lot like a first person shooter (most of the time). I'm sure it's a lot easier to innovate with just the basic 'first person' view, as opposed to innovation in the 'first person shooter' genre...
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Old 08-18-04, 05:02 AM   #51
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Well, first-person non-shooter, but it's still action-based like Half-life 2 is. It's not a totally different genre like RPG or puzzle game or anything, people will pick it up and say "hey this feels like a FPS", even though it's not based around guns or even projectiles really. I think there's a misconception that if a game is first-person but doesn't feature guns that it must be totally different from regular FPS games, when in fact a game can still have a lot in common with them even without guns. For example one of the most interesting aspects of HL2 is the physics gun, but really that weapon has nothing to do with shooting. Obviously even if you use the physics gun in HL2, you're still going to think that the game feels like an FPS despite the fact that you aren't actually "shooting" anything (well, not in the traditional sense anyway). Though now that I think about it a lot of FPS games have elements that aren't based around shooting at all, for example in Chronicals of Riddick you probably spend as much time using stealth and fighting hand-to-hand as you do shooting, but everyone who's played it will still say that the game is a first-person shooter. Basically with my idea there's more of an emphisis on movement and using physics like inertia and gravity (gotta take advantage of the physics system in HL2!), but it'll still use "FPS-like" controls and a pretty familiar interface.

But yeah, it is a lot harder to make an innovative game based on an FPS than it is to make a totally different kind of game, I think HL2 has definatly taken a step towards innovation and originality with it's physics system (assuming it works out as well as they've shown in videos). A lot of games have tried the "innovation in a FPS" idea before and kinda failed, remember Trespasser? I still think remaking that game in the Source engine would be pretty cool...maybe I'll make that my SECOND project
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Old 08-18-04, 05:14 AM   #52
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

I think I only saw a movie of Trespasser.. can't say as I saw anything that stood out about it...

Ya know one thing I love to do quite often? Just loading up a map in CPMA ( www.promode.org ), and doing 'trick' jumps around the map. There's no aim to doing this.. you can't win... it's just great fun
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Old 08-19-04, 11:30 AM   #53
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Apart from ever increasing nice graphics, which is great if it runs at reasonable fps, the last true innovation I saw in a FPS was Operation Flashpoint. Large maps makes for less linear play. JointOperations has tried but I'm afraid the maps aren't as believable as OFPs and the story line...well what story line?

The future I'd like to see is FPSs with very large maps, truely interactive environments, animals, relatively large multiplayer capacity. The time is nearly there for a Napolionic FPS. Riding horses, lines of guns, smoke, forests, farm houses, etc. DX9.0c instancing should do wonders for this. A story line is easily ripped steaming from the haunches of history.

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Old 08-19-04, 12:23 PM   #54
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Hmm, I just thought of another kinda strange but fun idea that could be added to FPS games, and that is having a companion of some kind that follows you around and obeys commands. I'm not talking about Alyx from HL2 (actually Alex from Breakdown would be a better comparision) or something where a sub-character pops up every once in a while and helps you fight battles, I'm thinking something more like the dog from Shadow Dancer where you could command them to attack or disable enemies to assist you as you fight. I think it would be cool if you had a pet dog in a FPS that you could command to attack enemies, then while he's keeping the enemy from shooting you could easilly take the guy out. Obviously there would be a bit of difficulty keeping your companion from dying from sending him into a dangerous situation, which adds a bit to the strategy. Perfect Dark *kinda* did something like that, but that was more of a full-blown coop character that was played by a computer AI, not really a "companion". Wonder how easy it would be making a mod that adds this in...really it should be quite simple considering most games already have AI code for following the player (like that little drone thing from Doom 3, which I think was used in a mod that allowed it to follow you around for the whole game rather than just certain section).
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Old 08-19-04, 01:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

in regards to linear gameplay i think that's one of the most difficult things to incorporate into a game effectively...if it's too open ended you end up wandering around aimlessly but if it's too linear it seems contrived.... i think the goal is to make the gameplay mostly linear but mask it so it doesn't seem that way...i still think we have a while to go before we can really get some good non linear gameplay...a truly non linear game would exponentially increase the development time in my opinion

didn't true crime or some similar game have a dog sidekick?

if more games had co-op we could have a human as a sidekick...

i'm still confused as to why co-op play died so quickly and why it is so difficult to implement...i remember quake 2 co-op...that was fun...
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Old 08-21-04, 01:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

The stories are always the same because action movies always have the same story, and because there's no sensical way for a FPS to exist without that story: YOU'RE SOME UBERBADASS (or have some badass suit ala Halo and HL) who has to get out of the place/defeat the demons/aliens/robots before they kill you/earth/steal your chicks. If this logic weren't in the game, the idea that one dude could blast his way through hundreds of guys would be ridiculous and absurd. For example: Imagine playing Raven Shield. Now imagine using Raven Shield AI and damage in Doom 3. The monsters would own the **** out of you. You couldn't move fast enough, aim fast enough or shoot fast enough to survive against them all. And that's how it would really be (as 'real' as anything based on demons invading a space station can be). What you SHOULD be doing is getting mowed down like all the other marines, but through some magic of game-logic you're the most hardcore sun'bitch to ever land on Mars.

So you can really only have two types of shooters: Tactical shooters and action shooters. You've got RPGs as a third branch, but they're always mixed with one of the two. Deus Ex was an action shooter with RPG elements, Elder Scrolls can be tactical if you play on high enough difficulty, etc. But other than that there's really no way to go about it. The only thing that can be added to a 3d shooter is a storyline that isn't completely repetitive and interesting weapons/monsters/physics, something they usually fail to do. NO MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD DEPLOYS WITH SHOTGUNS, DAMMIT! They might have them for special, specifically defined missions. Otherwise everyone has an assault rifle and a sidearm. But no 3d shooter has understood this simple fact so far, and they probably never will, just like they'll never understand that machineguns are more accurate than magnum pistols and nightivision which lasts more than five minutes actually exists.
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Old 08-21-04, 07:14 AM   #57
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheimison
NO MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD DEPLOYS WITH SHOTGUNS, DAMMIT! They might have them for special, specifically defined missions. Otherwise everyone has an assault rifle and a sidearm. But no 3d shooter has understood this simple fact so far
Halo did. You don't get the shotgun until much later in the game and it's pretty specialized (for taking out the Flood). I've been revisiting Halo recently and I've come to the conclusion that it's really a darn good game.
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Old 08-21-04, 07:37 AM   #58
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheimison
The stories are always the same because action movies always have the same story, and because there's no sensical way for a FPS to exist without that story: YOU'RE SOME UBERBADASS (or have some badass suit ala Halo and HL) who has to get out of the place/defeat the demons/aliens/robots before they kill you/earth/steal your chicks. If this logic weren't in the game, the idea that one dude could blast his way through hundreds of guys would be ridiculous and absurd. For example: Imagine playing Raven Shield. Now imagine using Raven Shield AI and damage in Doom 3. The monsters would own the **** out of you. You couldn't move fast enough, aim fast enough or shoot fast enough to survive against them all. And that's how it would really be (as 'real' as anything based on demons invading a space station can be). What you SHOULD be doing is getting mowed down like all the other marines, but through some magic of game-logic you're the most hardcore sun'bitch to ever land on Mars.
you forgot the third type of gameplay: the one that makes fun of the whole fps genre by overdoing it, ie serious sam. all the other games take themselves so seriously (pun intended). of course, who really cares about the story? we all just want to get a gun and blow the s*** out of things. but it would be nice to have a good story to play by.
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Old 08-22-04, 07:47 AM   #59
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

There's a game coming out that may just be a bit , well not revolutionary coz a FPS is a FPS, but I believe will be a bit different from all the rest.

I'm talking about starship troopers, I've just seen the gameplay videos , and usually from those I can make out if a game is any good. Starship troopers looks like lots of fun, 8 marines vs 1000 bugs, continuous firing and reloading, etc etc etc....ofcourse Halo's flood and serious sam have already touched this 'genre' (lol) before, never the less I think I'll have a hell of a time playing trough it.

If I had to pick a theme for a new FPS , I would surely pick the warhammer universe, it's been done before (Firewarrior), but so badly it's not even worth considering as an attempt in my opinion. You could even have a kind of universal combat type of game (without the bugs AND without derek smart please), and have deepstriking assaults of marines and terminators on chaos marine's bases etc, also the huge ammount of vehicles and units and weapons would help keep it interesting, and space combat, cruiser boarding etc - not too many games where you can launch a drop pod and board an enemy spaceship (having battle of proxycon flashbacks right about....now)

Thered also be tank and dreadnought fighting (mechs), spreading mayhem troughout planets , could make a pretty decent single player game, altough I believe the scope would be too broad to make a multiplayer game.

Seems good to me...
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Old 08-22-04, 06:42 PM   #60
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Default Re: No Innovation in First Person Shooters

I want to have a MMORPG shooter where you just wander around in cities killing random people.
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