Valve decide what fps is OK

svetli_pp · 08-20-04, 12:04 PM

I've read that the stress test of HL2 runs DX8.1 path on all FX cards. Its absolutely ridiculous. I have 5900XT and see that at 1024x768 it runs the test 92fps. Isn't it normal to be able to turn DX9 render path and get lets say 40-50 fps. Everything concerning HL2 benchmarking is very stinky I think. ATI is pushing Valve to deliberately adjust the performance in order to close the gap Doom3 dug between two card manufacturers. I'm sure it won't happen, because HL2 is not half as demanding a game as Doom, and lacking 10% will not make it unplayable on highest settings 1600 where 6800U makes 60fps. If when the game is done and released FINALLY

Valve do not allow my card to run it DX9 I officially announce I will never even try it. I don't like first HL much either. All the fuss around HL2 benches now reminds me of the same situation last year. Hope the following events will not resem

ble last year's and we'll see the game at last.

Sazar · 08-20-04, 12:09 PM

?

how is their trying to maximise the frame-rate with the minimum of IQ loss a bad thing?

would it not SUIT ati and valve if per your insinuations they were out to hurt nvidia if they had just run the stock dx9 path for the FX series and seen the frame-rate plummet?

in light of the fact that the benches do indeed show pretty good performance for the FX series (a little faster than the r3xx series in raw fps though w/o running dx9 path) it becomes very suspect to accuse valve of trying to hurt nvidia here...

do you have and proof to back your claims of ati pushing valve to deliberately hurt nvidia? last i checked the performance of nvidia cards on the source benches was pretty good..

DaveW · 08-20-04, 12:36 PM

Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h".

The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important.

The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special.

Assi9 · 08-20-04, 01:10 PM

So because "#include glquake.h" is included in the code, so automatically, Source = Quake 1 engine?

Wait a minute, my name is George W. Bush, that means I must be the president of the United States!!!

**Rakeesh** · 08-20-04, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveW

Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Sorry, but that is very dumb logic. It would be like saying that a Ferrari is the same as a peice of **** dodge neon since the frame is made out of the same kind of metal, and some of the nuts and bolts are the same size.

gmontem · 08-20-04, 02:52 PM

I feel like renaming one of the header files at work "glquake.h" now.

gmontem · 08-20-04, 02:57 PM

Oops I meant it to read '... at work to "glquake.h" now.' Hmm, strange how post editting has been disabled.

Holy Smoke · 08-20-04, 05:40 PM

Anyone wanna bet there's no trace of earlier Quake engines in Doom3?

If you turn off shadows, bump mapping and specular, it looks REMARKABLY like a low poly Quake3, leading to the possibility that that's exactly what the doom3 engine is.

Holy Smoke · 08-20-04, 05:47 PM

Also, the Tenebrae mod for the original Quake seems to back that up, as it's just based on the it's source code, with additions.

**Rakeesh** · 08-20-04, 07:56 PM

quake1 models are teh sux

|JuiceZ| · 08-20-04, 10:11 PM

Are there any high rez text mods for q2?

Cheimison · 08-21-04, 12:57 AM

"Are there any high rez text mods for q2?"
Yes, I believe it's enhanced Q2

Doom 3's graphics engine beats Half-Life 2 easily, but HL2 seems to have more work put into their textures and map details (probably because you couldn't see it in Doom 3 anyways). Also, unless you're running a machine similar to mine, if you tried to put a Doom3 level engine into fully lit gameplay with large, outdoor areas(like a lot of HL2 will probably be) your framerate would plummet into unplayability.

HL 2 also seems to have better physics, plus Valve said it supports GeoModding

08-20-04, 12:04 PM	#1
svetli_pp Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 137	Valve decide what fps is OK I've read that the stress test of HL2 runs DX8.1 path on all FX cards. Its absolutely ridiculous. I have 5900XT and see that at 1024x768 it runs the test 92fps. Isn't it normal to be able to turn DX9 render path and get lets say 40-50 fps. Everything concerning HL2 benchmarking is very stinky I think. ATI is pushing Valve to deliberately adjust the performance in order to close the gap Doom3 dug between two card manufacturers. I'm sure it won't happen, because HL2 is not half as demanding a game as Doom, and lacking 10% will not make it unplayable on highest settings 1600 where 6800U makes 60fps. If when the game is done and released FINALLY Valve do not allow my card to run it DX9 I officially announce I will never even try it. I don't like first HL much either. All the fuss around HL2 benches now reminds me of the same situation last year. Hope the following events will not resem ble last year's and we'll see the game at last.

08-20-04, 12:09 PM	#2
Sazar Sayonara !!! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 9,297	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK ? how is their trying to maximise the frame-rate with the minimum of IQ loss a bad thing? would it not SUIT ati and valve if per your insinuations they were out to hurt nvidia if they had just run the stock dx9 path for the FX series and seen the frame-rate plummet? in light of the fact that the benches do indeed show pretty good performance for the FX series (a little faster than the r3xx series in raw fps though w/o running dx9 path) it becomes very suspect to accuse valve of trying to hurt nvidia here... do you have and proof to back your claims of ati pushing valve to deliberately hurt nvidia? last i checked the performance of nvidia cards on the source benches was pretty good.. __________________ Help to find cures for Alzheimer's, Mad Cow (BSE), CJD, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers. Folding@Home - Is it in you?

08-20-04, 12:36 PM	#3
DaveW Its me! Hurray! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Brit in USA Posts: 1,203	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens... The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine. Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h". The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important. The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special. __________________ Core2 Q9400 @ 3.0, eVGA GTX 260, 4G DDR 800, Vista64

08-20-04, 01:10 PM	#4
Assi9 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 62	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK So because "#include glquake.h" is included in the code, so automatically, Source = Quake 1 engine? Wait a minute, my name is George W. Bush, that means I must be the president of the United States!!! __________________ EVGA 680i SLI Mobo Intel C2Duo 6420 @ 3.2Ghz Zalman 9500 LED 2GB Patriot PC-800 2x BFG 8800 GTX OC2 in SLI

08-20-04, 02:52 PM	#6
gmontem Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 536	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK I feel like renaming one of the header files at work "glquake.h" now.

08-20-04, 02:57 PM	#7
gmontem Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 536	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK Oops I meant it to read '... at work to "glquake.h" now.' Hmm, strange how post editting has been disabled.

08-20-04, 05:40 PM	#8
Holy Smoke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 179	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK Anyone wanna bet there's no trace of earlier Quake engines in Doom3? If you turn off shadows, bump mapping and specular, it looks REMARKABLY like a low poly Quake3, leading to the possibility that that's exactly what the doom3 engine is.

08-20-04, 05:47 PM	#9
Holy Smoke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 179	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK Also, the Tenebrae mod for the original Quake seems to back that up, as it's just based on the it's source code, with additions.

08-20-04, 07:56 PM	#10
Rakeesh Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Sonoran Desert Posts: 6,853	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK quake1 models are teh sux __________________ Want to listen to audio without your computer going to sleep? Try this. Core i7 2600k 4.4Ghz 1.385v \| Corsair H60 \| 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1600 8-8-8-24 \| MSI P67A-G45 \| OCZ Vertex 3 \| Sapphire 7850 OC to Max settings

08-20-04, 10:11 PM	#11
\|JuiceZ\| Registered User Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 3,285	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK Are there any high rez text mods for q2? __________________ primary MBP Core i5 2010 \| HR \| OCZ 120GB SSD gaming Core i5-2500K @ 4.1GHz w/ CM Hyper212+ \| MSI N560GTX-Ti TF II/OC \| MSI P67A-GD55 \| Silverstone FT02 \| X360 250GB \| Kinect htpc IONITX-A-U \| 2GB \| M350 \| XBMC Linux \| SABnzbd, sickbeard, couchpotato \| NAS Synology DS411J \| 4TB hometheater KURO PDP-5020 \| HK AVR2600 \| Definitive BP2006TL(2) & CLR2300 \| Polk R50(2) \| Sony S470 \| HarmonyOne

08-21-04, 12:57 AM	#12
Cheimison Not Even Trying Anymore Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 230	Re: Valve decide what fps is OK "Are there any high rez text mods for q2?" Yes, I believe it's enhanced Q2 Doom 3's graphics engine beats Half-Life 2 easily, but HL2 seems to have more work put into their textures and map details (probably because you couldn't see it in Doom 3 anyways). Also, unless you're running a machine similar to mine, if you tried to put a Doom3 level engine into fully lit gameplay with large, outdoor areas(like a lot of HL2 will probably be) your framerate would plummet into unplayability. HL 2 also seems to have better physics, plus Valve said it supports GeoModding __________________ Keep Your People Armed It's for the Children

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