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Old 08-21-04, 06:54 AM   #13
faraday
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h".

The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important.

The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special.

You're so high, you have no ideia whats going on...
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Old 08-21-04, 08:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

I have to admit (the first time i saw HL2 screens)
that I thought there was a similar look to the engine, but don't really know if it's just because of the same artistry.
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Old 08-21-04, 04:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

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Originally Posted by Holy Smoke
Also, the Tenebrae mod for the original Quake seems to back that up, as it's just based on the it's source code, with additions.


I'd swear those were Doom3 shots if you hadn't told me.
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Old 08-21-04, 05:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

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I'd swear those were Doom3 shots if you hadn't told me.
Exactly.

I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance.

And when you compare earlier screenshots of DX:IW (while it still looked good) with the released game, you'll notice that the main reason it looked so much better was due to the fact that specular lighting attenuated the bump and normal maps in the game way better than the simple lighting that was used in the released game. The bump/normal maps are still there, but without specular you hardly notice them.
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Old 08-21-04, 08:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Whats this ? .. Valve for sale ??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=5515280448

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Old 08-21-04, 08:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

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Originally Posted by SH64
Gabe's bidding on it too. My gosh this is serious.
Hey id look what we found.
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Old 08-21-04, 10:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

"I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance."
Just because engines have the same features doesn't mean they perform those features as well. Pre-Release IW did indeed have all the general features of the D3 engine in name, but D3 has defacto superior quality of those effects. Also the polycounts in D3 are WAY higher than those games.
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Old 08-21-04, 11:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodelf
Gabe's bidding on it too. My gosh this is serious.
Hey id look what we found.

LOL I didnt think that was the real Gabe Newell. I signed into my e-bay account to check him out and is e-mail is "*****@valvesoftware.com"

Gabe is into sharp things look what he picked up before, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=2248469458
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Old 08-22-04, 12:34 AM   #21
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheimison
"I *think* that one of the great misconceptions about technology, especially regarding graphics, is that it's revolutionary rather than evolutionary. Remember how people complained about Thief3's and DX:IW's performance? How they performed worse than they looked? I think the *only* difference between those engines and Doom3's is that Doom3 uses specular light maps on everything, whereas those other two don't. Meaning that if you turn off specular in Doom3, you end up with a game that looks the same as the other two, with similar performance."
Just because engines have the same features doesn't mean they perform those features as well. Pre-Release IW did indeed have all the general features of the D3 engine in name, but D3 has defacto superior quality of those effects. Also the polycounts in D3 are WAY higher than those games.

Depends on the engine take the quake 3 engine now and put in per pixel lighting and all shadows casted are volumetric you will end up with Doom 3. The Q3 engine can also handle the polygon counts too. The reason for the rewrite was probably to make the code more portable and easier for others to read.

The Source engine is very similiar to the Doom 3 engine as both have the same inharent restrictions because they are both built on a BSP tree.

The new revolutionary engines are Stalker and Crytek, this is why both these engine can do indoors equally well as Source and Doom 3, but when it comes to outdoor rendering they are unmatched. They don't use BSP trees. The base engine for terrain rendering uses either octtrees or polysoups. By using these methods the programming of geometric complexities increase quite a bit.
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Old 08-22-04, 01:57 AM   #22
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Doom 3 is Quake 3 with the rendering engine ripped out and flipped around.

Nearly every FPS game since Quake has been a Quake mod.
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Old 08-22-04, 04:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Have you played FarCry after going through Doom3. I have and I am absolutely disappointed with cryengine. I even wonder how could I have admired FarCry so much before. It does not come halfway close to doom3. Everything looks like made of plastic with plain textures over half of the objects in most of the game levels. Even Thief3 looks much sophisticated. IMHO.
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Old 08-22-04, 07:43 PM   #24
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

FarCry's main strength is its large levels and nice looking water. Otherwise, the old Soldier of Fortune was as good. The weapon models suck in Far Cry, also.
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