Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-03-04, 01:39 PM   #1
Sazar
Sayonara !!!
 
Sazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,297
Default Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

just a little investigation into doom 3's shadow rendering technique...

I was initially under the impression each shadow cast was completely independent and rendered according to the light source and rather cool...

it would appear that instead every single shadow in the game is a pre-stenciled entity that just becomes darker (or lighter or does not appear) depending on the light-source angle and the intensity of the light-source...

the dynamic part is it moves and becomes lighter and darker... it is not dynamic in so much as it varies per curvatures or gradient or distance or any other such thing... so often you will see a shadow being rendered in plain air...

granted that Mars has a dusty environment but its a bit strange still

anyone care to shed any light on doom 3's shadow technique...

shots taken @ 12x10/high quality/cropped for this post

-edit- updates as later in this thread...

it would appear these situations are not so widespread and limited instead to particular situations... other than these instances the shadows indeed appear to be dynamic for the most part...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	doom 3 pre-stenciled shadow.JPG
Views:	578
Size:	75.1 KB
ID:	7301  Click image for larger version

Name:	doom 3 pre-stenciled shadow2.JPG
Views:	544
Size:	71.7 KB
ID:	7302  

Last edited by Sazar; 08-03-04 at 04:10 PM.
Sazar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 01:55 PM   #2
CaptNKILL
CUBE
 
CaptNKILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 18,844
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

I think i know what youre talking about but I dont think its wrong, even though it looks that way. If you hold a flashlight and shine it, the lightsource comes from your hand, so the shape of the shadows you will see will be almost identical to the object casting them. Is that what you are talking about? The way the shadows seem to just be stripes, rather than going up the walls at angles?

Edit: Yeah, as lame as it sounds I just tried it
I just got a flashlight, and a pencil, held the pencil on end on my desk, and pointed the light from my shoulder at the pencil, toward a wall... the shadow is a straight line. Only if i move my head to the side does is it clear that it bends over everything.

EDIT2: And the reason things appear to not change for distance is because again, the light is coming from you. What is far from the light, is far from you, so it appears smaller. One thread here shows an imp throwing a fire ball, the light coming from the flame in his hand creates a gigantic shadow of his hand across the entire room.

I think you just happened to notice this because youre walking around with a flashlight... plus, the screens you took are in a bit of an odd scene... but they are right, dont worry
__________________
---- Primary Rig ---- CoolerMaster 690 II Advance - Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 4.0Ghz + Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
6GB DDR2 @ 942Mhz 5-5-5-20 1.9v (2x1Gb Wintec AMPX PC2-8500 & 2x2Gb G.Skill PC2-6400) - EVGA Geforce GTX 470 @ 750/1500/1850 (1.050v)
Sparkle Geforce GTS 250 1Gb Low-Profile (Physx) - Crucial RealSSD C300 64Gb SSD - Seagate 7200.12 500Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA
ASUS VW266H 25.5" LCD - OCZ GameXStream 700W PSU - ASUS Xonar DX - Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround - Windows 7 Professional x64
---- HTPC ---- Asus M3A78-EM 780G - AMD Athlon X2 5050e 45W @ 2.6Ghz - 2x2GB Kingston PC2-6400 DDR2 - Sparkle 350W PSU
Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 250Gb SATA - Athenatech A100BB.350 MicroATX Desktop - Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic
CaptNKILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:05 PM   #3
Sazar
Sayonara !!!
 
Sazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,297
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

-edited so as not to constitute a conspiracy theory-

Last edited by Sazar; 08-04-04 at 08:38 PM.
Sazar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:08 PM   #4
|JuiceZ|
Registered User
 
|JuiceZ|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Louisville
Posts: 3,286
Send a message via Skype™ to |JuiceZ|
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazar
shadows cast off the railings as you can see from my small caps show absolutely no variation depending on the objects behind them... they are just THERE...
blah, didn't notice that until now, o well.

Thx for the doc link btw.
__________________
primary MBP Core i5 2010 | HR | OCZ 120GB SSD
gaming Core i5-2500K @ 4.1GHz w/ CM Hyper212+ | MSI N560GTX-Ti TF II/OC | MSI P67A-GD55 | Silverstone FT02 | X360 250GB + Kinect
htpc IONITX-A-U | 2GB | M350 | XBMC Linux | SABnzbd, sickbeard, couchpotato | NAS Synology DS411J | 4TB
hometheater KURO PDP-5020 | Marantz SR6005 | Definitive BP7001s, CLR3000, BPVXPs
|JuiceZ| is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:09 PM   #5
Sazar
Sayonara !!!
 
Sazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,297
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

-edited so as not to constitute a conspiracy theory-

Last edited by Sazar; 08-04-04 at 08:38 PM.
Sazar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:14 PM   #6
Clay
Registered User
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,992
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Interesting Saz, thanks for the info. I'd sort of noticed this but didn't pay much attention to it (too busy recording videos lately)
__________________
SLI GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB @ 550/1700 | MSI K8N Neo4/SLI | A64 X2 4400+ Toledo | CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) TwinX PC 3500 | Silverstone ST65ZF 650W| 93.71| XP SP2 and a Dell 2405FPW

I personally believe that us americans are unable to do so because osama.

People out there in our nation don't have that, And I believe that our education like such as south africa and such as the Iraq.

everywhere "such as". And I believe our education should help the US should help the south africa and the iraq and the asian countries so we can build up our future.
-- Miss Teen South Carolina

Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:35 PM   #7
CaptNKILL
CUBE
 
CaptNKILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 18,844
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Bah, thats sort of disapointing. I dont understand most of what Carmack says in that text file... not surprising really

I guess we havent quite made it to real lighting and shadowing, its still just a simulation... still looks good, but, theres obviously problems with it.

BTW, how the hell does this work in multiplayer? Is there no flashlight? And if thats the case, then this wierd "projected floating shadow" crap is probably just done when the flashlight is used.

Still not sure why he didnt go with real dynamic shadows though. Anyone that can read "carmack-ese" know what he says is the problem? I read something about going behind a projected shadow would cause the screen to be black or something... if thats it, then youd think there would have been an easier way than creating floating shadows
__________________
---- Primary Rig ---- CoolerMaster 690 II Advance - Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 4.0Ghz + Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
6GB DDR2 @ 942Mhz 5-5-5-20 1.9v (2x1Gb Wintec AMPX PC2-8500 & 2x2Gb G.Skill PC2-6400) - EVGA Geforce GTX 470 @ 750/1500/1850 (1.050v)
Sparkle Geforce GTS 250 1Gb Low-Profile (Physx) - Crucial RealSSD C300 64Gb SSD - Seagate 7200.12 500Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA
ASUS VW266H 25.5" LCD - OCZ GameXStream 700W PSU - ASUS Xonar DX - Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround - Windows 7 Professional x64
---- HTPC ---- Asus M3A78-EM 780G - AMD Athlon X2 5050e 45W @ 2.6Ghz - 2x2GB Kingston PC2-6400 DDR2 - Sparkle 350W PSU
Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 250Gb SATA - Athenatech A100BB.350 MicroATX Desktop - Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic
CaptNKILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 02:41 PM   #8
Ninjaman09
Takin 'er easy
 
Ninjaman09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Jowjah
Posts: 6,687
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Interesting, but completely wrong. I'm not sure what you meant by "pre-rendered shadows", but I'm assuming you mean light maps, though there was nothing in the text file you linked to suggest that. In fact, I'd like for you to point out the lines you think support your argument. The lights are all dynamic, and every shadow in the game is cast dynamically as well. This has been stated repeatedly by Carmack, and is extremely evident in the game, especially when a different character than yourself has a flashlight (like a sentry bot or the service platform you control later on).

God damn it, would you people stop trying to find faults with the game and just let yourselves enjoy it?!
__________________
Core i7 920 @ 3.2 | ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
6GB Mushkin DDR3-1600 RAM
eVGA GTX 570 SC | Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX
Dell U2410
Ninjaman09 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 08-03-04, 02:43 PM   #9
Clay
Registered User
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,992
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaman09
Interesting, but completely wrong. I'm not sure what you meant by "pre-rendered shadows", but I'm assuming you mean light maps, though there was nothing in the text file you linked to suggest that. In fact, I'd like for you to point out the lines you think support your argument. The lights are all dynamic, and every shadow in the game is cast dynamically as well. This has been stated repeatedly by Carmack, and is extremely evident in the game, especially when a different character than yourself has a flashlight (like a sentry bot or the service platform you control later on).

God damn it, would you people stop trying to find faults with the game and just let yourselves enjoy it?!
Mmm, even more interesting. Based on Saz's rebuttal I may have to investigate this for myself tonight.
__________________
SLI GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB @ 550/1700 | MSI K8N Neo4/SLI | A64 X2 4400+ Toledo | CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) TwinX PC 3500 | Silverstone ST65ZF 650W| 93.71| XP SP2 and a Dell 2405FPW

I personally believe that us americans are unable to do so because osama.

People out there in our nation don't have that, And I believe that our education like such as south africa and such as the Iraq.

everywhere "such as". And I believe our education should help the US should help the south africa and the iraq and the asian countries so we can build up our future.
-- Miss Teen South Carolina

Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 03:03 PM   #10
Intel17
Is not an Intel fanboi
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 1,368
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

Who cares? Teh game r0x0rz!!
Intel17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 03:04 PM   #11
ClosetFanBoy
Thorazine shuffle
 
ClosetFanBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Elk Grove Ca.
Posts: 829
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

hmmm. my flashlight doesnt cast a shadow nor can i see my shadow (your supposed to see the marines shadow yes?) i'm playing on high quality. am i missing something here?
__________________
In order to find his equal a man is forced to converse with God.

iPhone junkie...
ClosetFanBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-04, 03:05 PM   #12
Nutty
Sittin in the Sun
 
Nutty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,835
Send a message via MSN to Nutty
Default Re: Doom 3 pre-rendered "dynamic shadows" ?

I dunno what those screenshots are meant to prove ?

If you're talking about the boxes shadow going the other way, thats because theres a light on the other side of the room casting that. If you look around the edge of the box, you can see the shadow the flashlight is casting, but its mostly obscured by the box.

The 2nd image looks fine as well. The shadow is a projection, so it will look straight regardless of the surface it's casting across.

I cant see anything wrong with the images, what's the problem ?
Nutty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remastered Doom 3 BFG Edition Game Coming with Stereo 3D Support News Archived News Items 0 06-01-12 05:30 AM
Doom 3 BFG Edition will feature entire Doom series, seven new Doom 3 levels News Archived News Items 0 05-31-12 05:40 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.