Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-24-04, 09:05 PM   #61
Edge
3d animator for hire!
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Actually, I think it's more BECAUSE games take advantage of the Xbox's capabilities that we don't see more 720p/1080i games. Multiplatform titles can use those modes pretty easilly when nothing is really stressing the system, but when the Xbox's Geforce 3 is already pushing bump mapping, pixel shaders, and shadow effects, there isn't much horsepower left to run the game in higher resolution (what's the last PC game that's still playable at 1920x1080 or even 1280x720 on a Geforce 3 card?). Although console games usually take advantage of the platform's capabilities more than PC games do, so it wouldn't really be suprising if the first batch of Xbox 2 games show off heavy SM3.0 usage. Hell, back when the Xbox was released there were 6 launch games that used pixel shaders, and yet at that time there were only 3 or 4 PC games that used the same effects despite the fact that the Geforce 3 had been out for almost 9 months at the time.

I honestly don't think SM3.0 or even PS2.0 will really take off until the next batch of consoles are released, once developers have a fixed platform to try things out on they feel much more secure about doing it on the PC. The 9700 card has been out for what, 2 years and there's how many PS2.0 enabled games? Hopefully Half-life 2 will encourage developers to actually use PS2.0 effects in their games (Farcry unfortunatly didn't seem to change their opinions).
Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 09:15 PM   #62
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

I don't honestly think that SM 3.0 is actually going to be *that* much of an obvious transitions. It will, in my mind, increase the scale of effects we already see, but it won't actually show much new stuff. I mean.. the majority of things that actually make really cool effects (Deferred Shading, Floating Point Blending for HDR etc..) are 2.0b effects. Bear in mind that I'm not some ATi guy pluggin' their card - I still think that 3.0 is a bit nicer because it's more standardised. A the same time, I don't really see much head room for totally new stuff in SM 3.0. The one big thing I can see being utilised in SM 3.0 is Vertex Tex lookups, but even that's not that major because most models in games are still very low poly count. You need some very highly tesselated models to see anything particularly useful coming out of that.

As I say, I'm not even beginning to suggest that SM 3.0 isn't relevant, merely that instead of introducing wildly showy features, it's going to increase the scale of the sorts of things we can already do. Least, that's what I think.

Edit: Actually, on second thoughts there is an important qualification here: SM 2.0 isn't sufficient on its own for some of the nice stuff I think we need for the next gen of flashyness. In particular you NEED MRTs (Multiple Render Targs) and Floating Point buffer blending - both of which are above the basic 2.0 standard. So maybe the transition will be quite visible, it's just a wee bit innaccurate to describe it as a move from 2 -> 3, where it's more 2 -> 2.0b
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 10:10 PM   #63
Edge
3d animator for hire!
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 3,564
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

True, I don't think anyone expects SM3.0 to replace PS2.0 or anything, however due to it's flexibility most developers already using PS2.0 on games will likely use SM3.0 for at least a few effects. The only major feature SM3.0 features that's a huge leap over previous hardware is Displacement Mapping, however that technology won't become very common for some time (probably after the next batch of consoles in fact). Still, it's a nice feature to have on modern cards, if for no other reason than to be more future-proof and have higher resale value in the future (look at the price gap that formed between 9x00 and FX cards after the whole Half-life 2 fiasco).
Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 10:37 PM   #64
Clay
Registered User
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,993
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Regarding the whole SM2.0 vs. SM3.0 dead horse beating...

SM3.0 basically offers more efficiency than does SM2.0. Anyone that's ever written a lick of code will tell you that they'd rather write fewer lines of code if at all possible. Fewer lines of code speeds up development time, reduces the probability of bugs, usually equates to tighter, more efficient compiled code, etc. This (ability to loop, branch, etc) is the most practical difference between SM3.0 and 2.0 aside from the marketing-speak that remains to be seen as far as real world results.
Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 10:41 PM   #65
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

I'm well aware of the benefits of Dynamic Branching... I was more talking about the perceived change that gamers will get as developers move over to using it. As both Edge and I mentioned, probably the most significant change in terms of things we'll actually see in games is to do with Vertex Texture lookups (which equates, usually, to displacement mapping). I completely agree that from a dev point point of view, knowing looping/branching will be better handled is quite significant.
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:00 PM   #66
Clay
Registered User
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,993
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtestube
I'm well aware of the benefits of Dynamic Branching... I was more talking about the perceived change that gamers will get as developers move over to using it. As both Edge and I mentioned, probably the most significant change in terms of things we'll actually see in games is to do with Vertex Texture lookups (which equates, usually, to displacement mapping). I completely agree that from a dev point point of view, knowing looping/branching will be better handled is quite significant.
Cool, yeah I didn't mean to imply that you guys didn't "get it". I've just seen about 4,000 threads on this topic spin out of control into complete garbage so I just wanted to say my piece being a bit jaded as I am on the whole topic. I tend to agree that the biggest benefits we'll see (at first anyway) are going to be related to DM and instancing.
Clay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:04 PM   #67
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Hehe... fair enough... erm... to get back on topic, I really did enjoy Morrowind, and hope that this works well. What I'm actually really interested in is the AI... I deeply hope the world characters work a little better... they were a bit weak in Morrowind - really only slightly stronger than they were in Daggerfall.
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:11 PM   #68
Clay
Registered User
 
Clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,993
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Same here, the NPCs were the weakest point to me in MW. Their behavior/patters (while convenient in never having to find them elsewhere) made the game feel very "staged" at times and not dynamic at all from that standpoint.
Clay is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 09-24-04, 11:17 PM   #69
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Exactly... and I always hated the way your reputation was absolute across the globe. Everyone knew everything you'd done... it was a little frustrating at times. I mean, unless you were a true master crimelord, would it really be the case that everyone in the street would know you stole 5 bags of flour?
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:24 PM   #70
SH64
MAXIMUM TECH
 
SH64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 12,202
Default Re: New Elder Scrolls game coming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hunt
Well... lucky for all of you (and me ) I found somebody who has magazine scans... and the game looks beautiful...


Weeeeeeeeeeee!!
Man these graphics looks truly amazing !! .. just look at the amount of the polygons , bump-mapping & pixel shaders used in each scene

& thanks for posting them


Hmmm .. after looking further more at the scans i think i have a new game taking the top spot in my legendry games list . sorry Stalker , sorry UE3 .. ES4:Oblivion gonna own both of ya!

I WANT THIS GAME !! .. well not now .. but when its done
__________________


- "My name is RAM and my tank is full"

http://warhawk64nv.mybrute.com/ <-- pupils go thaarrr! Or,
http://silenthunter64.mybrute.com

Last edited by SH64; 09-24-04 at 11:39 PM.
SH64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:46 PM   #71
Rytr
SuperMod
 
Rytr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: River City
Posts: 1,726
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Just finished reading the article in GI. A number of things impressed me. You actually can listen in on conversions that may or may not be beneficial to your present quest. Facial expressions and non scripted dialog. Much more interaction and more definable combat techniques. 1000 NPCs and 30-40 other creatures. And of course the use of and development of improved graphic techniques.
Rytr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-04, 11:48 PM   #72
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

well either way, I won't be buying it for xbox2.
besides, PC graphics card's will be well beyond Xbox 2, (2x SLI 6800 gt's) by the time it comes out. although it might be cool if they came out with a mouse/keyboard set up for it. As far as I'm concerned, we've got a long enough wait ahead, that many thing's can change.

One thing about the xbox2 that puzzles me though (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that it probably should have been out by now.
I mean, wasn't the xbox, which had the nv 25/2a gpu (faster than the GF3) released around the time of the GF3?. Wasn't the point of it to attract pc users to convert, to M$crosoft Mach$ne...but failed?.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, now that I have a 6800 ultra with sm3.0 support, why would I want a console with an r500 for anything other than console only games?. The Xbox had a chance because it was equal to the pc, but by the time the xbox2 comes out.

As for developers using sm3.0, I believe we'll see much more of it next year, after ATI support's it.
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Elder Scrolls Online impressions News Archived News Items 0 06-05-12 01:20 PM
Everything we know (and don't know) about dungeons in Elder Scrolls Online News Archived News Items 1 05-30-12 07:05 PM
How Skyrim and Oblivion influenced The Elder Scrolls Online News Archived News Items 0 05-25-12 12:20 PM
Why Elder Scrolls Online Needs To Be A Sandbox News Archived News Items 0 05-09-12 01:10 PM
The Elder Scrolls Online Teases Us Ouroborosly News Archived News Items 0 05-04-12 11:00 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.