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Old 11-06-02, 09:36 PM   #61
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What's the sense in optimizing a game slated for 2003 for hardware that was released in early 2002? It's not what Carmack was aiming for.
Well, how about so you don't lose money on it because only .01% of people can actually play it?

hah.
 
Old 11-06-02, 09:38 PM   #62
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Not to mention R9700 has been out for a good bit now. When Doom 3 comes out, we'll no doubt already have ATI's next project, the upgraded R300 core with 256MB memory, .13, and faster speeds. Not to mention NV30's launc hdate is 11/18. Less than 2 weeks away.

It's entirely useless and STUPID to think that your old Ti4600, that has been out since February of 2002, will play all the details in Doom 3 at a decent frame rate, when the game is slated for a release that is long after NV30 and R350(i assume that's the next codename), both of which are significantly more powerful than their predecessors. All Carmack has to hear is "We will have hardware available to consumers that allow you to do what you want" and that's the go ahead he needs to not really worry about the GF4 line of products that much.

There's only so much you can do with hardware....and Carmack pushes the envelope.
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Old 11-06-02, 09:41 PM   #63
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Oh come on now, you as well as I know that quake 3 was very successful requiring the TOP OF THE LINE TNT2 line of products to play decently. Just like Quake 2's OpenGL mode wanted a P2 with a voodoo2, Unreal wanted the same.

Don't give me that crap "what's the point in making the game" because you know why? Because Carmack makes the renderer. Id software drives the industry. What they put out, is what raises the bar in gaming, and in hardware. Now that Doom 3 will be released, more and more software will have to be released to try and match it. Not to mention I'm sure that within 6 months there will be at least 2 more games based on the engine out, which will further force people to upgrade their hardware.

You did not always get 200 FPS in Quake 3 Arena. There was a time when it took a Dual Xeon 400 system with a TNT1 to play the game at 1024x768 with medium details at a decent rate....I remember, because I played on it.
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Old 11-06-02, 09:43 PM   #64
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and you gotta pull that big stick out of your arse..because no one here said the ti4600 was going to handle doom3 with highest details.
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Old 11-06-02, 09:46 PM   #65
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Jesus Christ man, Carmack does not singlehandedly drive the tech industry. It will move at the same pace without Carmack--he just makes what he does look better than what anyone else can do.

As for the rest of your sentiment, games don't push the envelope because they have to make money. They don't push EVERY FRIGGIN' THING in your box as far as they can go because then you can't play it. And if somebody can't play it, then you can't make money off of it. I doubt that any normal home user would spend $1500 on a box capable of running Doom 3 well (store bought)

Things that do are called "benchmarks," a fancy name for something that has no purpose whatsoever except to look really good and try to kill your computer.

Doom 3's not a benchmark, it's a game. It won't be cut down, it'll be optimized.

See, early versions of things run like hell. Case in point--UT2k3 alpha. As somebody said here, took double the ram and double the processing power to get a similar framerate to the retail game.

Think about it.

And if Carmack's such a god at coding, why was a patch for Q3 released a couple months ago, what, almost 3 years after its release?

Stop with your fanboy-Carmack-is-God-YOU-MUST-BUY-AN-NV30-NOW crap. It's simply not true. You will probably be able to run it with a GF4Ti at 800x600 and get at least 30FPS. You probably won't have to turn down the details if you have a fast proc (except for ultra-high-res textures and the like, stuff where you just don't have the video memory for it to begin with, even on the R9700). And if you DO have an NV30, it will use NV30 specific features (hey, why is there that UseNV30 line in the config! I WONDER!) and you will maybe be able to use AA with it as well.

The alpha isn't final. If it was, then they'd be done with everything but mapping and everything else would be released in patches....
 
Old 11-06-02, 09:47 PM   #66
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But so far most people here seem to thinnk that they're going to be able to play the game at decent rates, with a decent res. Even *with* optimizations, I dont see a Ti4600 or less playing the game with anything higher than 800x600 at 30 FPS. That will be top. I just don't see it and I don't see how it's going to happen.

From the comments on here it seems as if people somehow magically seem to think that their Ti4600s will last them forever....but to be honest, they just bought their systems at the wrong time...

The fact is, no matter which way you look at it, with optimizations..you are going to need an upgrade...and want to know somethiing else? It's going to take at least 1 more generation of hardware before we really experience it.....I would almost guarantee that.
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Old 11-06-02, 09:55 PM   #67
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its a single player game..not like you would need 60+ fps to enjoy it. 30 is good enough. considering the r9700 is already running that thing at 60-70, and it is only alpha, and hasn't even yet been optimized for the geforce series, because carmack choose to show d3 at e3 on a radeon.

quake 4, which is a mp game, which will use the d3 engine, will need your next gen hardware. not doom 3.
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Old 11-06-02, 09:58 PM   #68
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Define "decent frame rates".

IMO .0001fps is incredible performance. Anything above that like 1fps is godlike.

Define "quality".

320x240 16bpp LOD +3.0 is far better than 1600x1200 32bpp FSAA and AF.
So IMO by playing at 320x240 16bpp I'm getting better quality than 1600x1200 32bpp with FSAA and AF.

Now if anyone wants to show how retarded they are by arguing against my opinion, go right ahead.
If anyone wants to add a comment on what they like, that is okay.
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Old 11-07-02, 03:15 AM   #69
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Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Define "quality".

320x240 16bpp LOD +3.0 is far better than 1600x1200 32bpp FSAA and AF.
So IMO by playing at 320x240 16bpp I'm getting better quality than 1600x1200 32bpp with FSAA and AF.
and he may actually not be kidding folks
 
Old 11-07-02, 03:22 AM   #70
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ITS AN ALPHA WITH COMPRESSED SOUND. performance will only get better. nothing should be assumed at this point, with the leak of the alpha, doom3 has most likely gone on a different path altogether.
don't you mean uncompressed sound?

and A-KO is right. the alpha was unfinsihed. who knows what will be done to increase quality while offsetting optimizations? however, i also hold the opinion that the game will be optimized more so than "de-optimized" with features.

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On the note of waav files : it's not a waste of space. When your prime factor in this game is audio..which is really what will be used to engulf you into the game, make you feel as if you're there, you want the highest quality obtainable. WAVE files are uncompressed, getting every little single detail in that audio that was meant to be.
are you kidding? even DVDs have compressed sound. i don't think some game is going to use uncompressed sound, it just doesn't make sense. most gamers have 2 speakers, and 2 crappy speakers at that. those that have 5.1 systems probably don't have good enough speakers or ears to tell the difference between compressed or uncompressed.

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and you gotta pull that big stick out of your arse..because no one here said the ti4600 was going to handle doom3 with highest details.
except Carmack

yes, the comment about the GF3 was made a long time ago, yes things could change, but there has been no indication that they have, and so there is no reason to doubt it. by extension, the GF4 must be able to handle highest details if a GF3 can. personally i'll be disappointed if a GF3 can bust out 30fps at 800X600 at highest details. although i suppose that would mean we would see Doom 3 engine licensed games using higher poly counts sooner, which would be a good thing. but i want Doom 3 to blow me away like nothing else
 
Old 11-07-02, 07:32 AM   #71
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Originally posted by =SSC=The Baron
Jesus Christ man, Carmack does not singlehandedly drive the tech industry.
He Almost does

Quote:

And if Carmack's such a god at coding, why was a patch for Q3 released a couple months ago, what, almost 3 years after its release?
Check out the most recent q3 patch and you'll see it wasn't really about fixing bugs but adding PunkBuster anti cheat code. I've installed all the patches and read about what bugs are being fixed and I can honestly say I've never experenced any of the bugs they have fixed. I played a hell of lot of Q3, including at LAN parties.

Quote:

Stop with your fanboy-Carmack-is-God-YOU-MUST-BUY-AN-NV30-NOW crap. It's simply not true. You will probably be able to run it with a GF4Ti at 800x600 and get at least 30FPS. You probably won't have to turn down the details if you have a fast proc (except for ultra-high-res textures and the like, stuff where you just don't have the video memory for it to begin with, even on the R9700). And if you DO have an NV30, it will use NV30 specific features (hey, why is there that UseNV30 line in the config! I WONDER!) and you will maybe be able to use AA with it as well.
Carmack is aiming for this to run on the Xbox too so he's target card will be GF3 Ti or there abouts. With tuning and trimming of details GF2 Ti should handle it okay.
I'm gonna replace my GF2 Ti with NV30 ASAP so I'm not bothered.

PS: In the world of 3D Engines, Carmack IS god.
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Old 11-07-02, 08:27 AM   #72
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yeah my bad i meant uncompressed. disable sound and the game is smooth.
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