Go Back   nV News Forums > Graphics Card Forums > NVIDIA Legacy Graphics Cards

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-08-04, 11:15 AM   #1
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Technical details about the 5700

I am curious.... Didi NVidia release some technical papers (no marketing BS) about the internal layout of the NV36, its block diagram or such ? I was looking for some in-depth info but without luck, so far. Are they available to the public ?

Thanks
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-04, 11:31 AM   #2
Daneel Olivaw
Northwood hugger
 
Daneel Olivaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,244
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

all I know is its a 4x1 with 128bit ram.
__________________
-Intel Core2 Duo 4300 (3.0GHz) | Asus P5N-E SLI | 6GB Corsair CVS PC2-5300 | GF8800GT 512MB | Western Digital 1TB Raid0 | Antec SLK2600AMB | Antec Earthwatts 500W
-Intel Pentium4 2.4C (3.4GHz) | Asus P4P800 Dlx | 2GB Crucial Rendition PC-3200 | GF6800LE 128MB | Seagate 200GB | Antec Overture II | Antec TruePower 2.0 480W


Mild agnosticism —the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say "I don't know, but maybe you do."
Daneel Olivaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-04, 05:03 PM   #3
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

It's not even a true 4x1 but rather a 2x2 with limited capacity of writing 4 pixels at once in certain situations and synthetic benchmarks tend to prove this. But I was looking for something more in depth.
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-04, 08:11 AM   #4
Daneel Olivaw
Northwood hugger
 
Daneel Olivaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,244
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

I'd like some facts to support it's a 2x2... I'm not convinced.
__________________
-Intel Core2 Duo 4300 (3.0GHz) | Asus P5N-E SLI | 6GB Corsair CVS PC2-5300 | GF8800GT 512MB | Western Digital 1TB Raid0 | Antec SLK2600AMB | Antec Earthwatts 500W
-Intel Pentium4 2.4C (3.4GHz) | Asus P4P800 Dlx | 2GB Crucial Rendition PC-3200 | GF6800LE 128MB | Seagate 200GB | Antec Overture II | Antec TruePower 2.0 480W


Mild agnosticism —the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if more evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say "I don't know, but maybe you do."
Daneel Olivaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-04, 11:40 AM   #5
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

Benchmark Date/Time : 09/09/2004 17.27.46

System Information
-----------------------------------------------------------
CPU : Intel(R) Celeron(TM) CPU
GFX : NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra
OS : Microsoft Windows XP

Benchmark Result
-----------------------------------------------------------
FrameBuffer Clear : N/A
Color Fill : N/A
Z Fill : 1689,846 M-Pixel/s
Color + Z Fill : N/A
Single Texture : 1105,056 M-Texel/s
Dual Textures : 1579,745 M-Texel/s
Triple Textures : 1141,309 M-Texel/s
Quad Textures : 1032,192 M-Texel/s
1 Floating Poing Texture : N/A
Render to Self : N/A
PS 1.1 Simple : 877,8547 M-Pixel/s
PS 1.4 Simple : 876,8717 M-Pixel/s
PS 2.0 Simple : 875,8886 M-Pixel/s
PS 2.0 PP Simple : 875,8886 M-Pixel/s

Benchmark was done at 640x480x16 @ 60Hz + Z16 to minimize the impact on bandwidth. The card was clocked at 450MHz core / RAM (DDR2).

Judging by the figures:
The card can write up to ~4 Z/Stenicl values per clock (3.75 measured)
The card can output more than two pixel per clock when working in single texturing mode (2.45 measured)
The card works like a plain 2x2 configuration with an odd number of textures (Look at the "triple texture" fillrate: 1141 Mtex means .845 pixel/clock like you would expect from a fixed configuration 2x2 architecture)
The card has only two pixel shader enabled pipelines for a peak throughout of ~2 pixel per clock (1.94 measured)

Conclusion: Nv36 has a strange hybrid architecture: either only half of its pipelines are "fully fledged" meaning that they have loopback capabilities and programmable ALUs (shaders) or the card has only two pipelines but their output stage (ROPs) can write 2 Z/color values in certain situations.

This is puzzling me. That's why I asked help from the resident experts.
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-04, 05:26 PM   #6
ChrisRay
Registered User
 
ChrisRay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

In my experience its fillrate seemed more in Line with a 2x2 card,But its pipeline structure could even be similar to a 6600 line and have 4 ROPS, But only capable of doing 2 pixels per clock and requiring a loopback for 4 pixels/textures.
__________________
|CPU: Intel I7 Lynnfield @ 3.0 Ghz|Mobo:Asus P7P55 WS Supercomputer |Memory:8 Gigs DDR3 1333|Video:Geforce GTX 295 Quad SLI|Monitor:Samsung Syncmaster 1680x1080 3D Vision\/Olevia 27 Inch Widescreen HDTV 1920x1080

|CPU: AMD Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.5 Ghz|Mobo:Asus M3n HT Deluxe Nforce 780A|Memory: 4 gigs DDR2 800| Video: Geforce GTX 280x2 SLI

Nzone
SLI Forum Administrator

NVIDIA User Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the members
ChrisRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-04, 05:35 PM   #7
ragejg
nV News Alumni
 
ragejg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Finger Lakes of Hell, NY
Posts: 5,399
Send a message via AIM to ragejg
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
In my experience its fillrate seemed more in Line with a 2x2 card,But its pipeline structure could even be similar to a 6600 line and have 4 ROPS, But only capable of doing 2 pixels per clock and requiring a loopback for 4 pixels/textures.
...plus no fragment crossbar!!
__________________

2010-2011 Reviews: GTX 570 | GTX 580 | GTS 450 | GTX 460 | GTX 465
Pre-2010 Reviews: 6600 GT | XMS 4400 DDR | SilenX Cooler | 6800 | 5900 XT | Personal Cinema | 5900 NU


______________________________________________
Phenom II x6 1090t @ 4.0 ghz | Asus M498TD-EVO Am3 SLI nForce 980a | 2x EVGA GTX 560 SLI | 2x4gb DDR3-1333 | Antec EarthWatts EA650 PSU | 60gb Mushkin Calisto Enhanced Sandforce SSD | 2x WD2500KS RAID 0 | Sunbeam Tuniq 3 case | 24" Asus 19x10 LED LCD | 26" Panasonic 720p TV | Sidewinder X5 mouse | Logitech MX5500 & Revolution mouse | Altec Lansing 5.1 THX-Certified audio | Win 7 Ultimate | desk | couch


ragejg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-04, 01:35 AM   #8
Demirug
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 131
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

NV36 is a 2*2 Chip that can work like a 4*1 in cases were the loopback is not needed.

There are primary two conditions to make this possible.

1. On the outputside from the pixelprocessor to the ROPs you need 2 datachannel for each pixel.

2. The trisetup need the ability to split one texturcoordinate in two.

If you run this mode the pixelprocessor will fetch values for 2 pixel with TMU 1 and additional 2 pixelvalues with TMU 2. The Trisetup have to modify the second texturecoordinate with the offset for the second pixelblock. After the fetch you have for each "pixel" 2 values in the pixelprocessor. Both values are transfered to the ROP and interpreted as two pixel.
Demirug is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 09-10-04, 01:39 AM   #9
Demirug
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 131
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRay
In my experience its fillrate seemed more in Line with a 2x2 card,But its pipeline structure could even be similar to a 6600 line and have 4 ROPS, But only capable of doing 2 pixels per clock and requiring a loopback for 4 pixels/textures.
If the structure is like a 6600 you will get an other "Triple Textures" fillrate.
Demirug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-04, 02:55 AM   #10
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

Thanks for the info.

I wonder why NVidia decided to add this complexity to their midrange cards. Correct me if I am wrong, but the NV30/35 never output 8 pixel values at once, only 8 Z/stencil. And, considering the limit of this particular setup (no loopbacks, single texturing and no pixel shaders) I wonder if there are REAL situations (aside synthetic benchmarks) were the ability to write 2 pixels at once is used. Dropping this feature would have saved a few transistors without affecting too much the performance in real world apps.
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-04, 04:02 AM   #11
Demirug
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 131
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

Quote:
Originally Posted by msxyz
Thanks for the info.

I wonder why NVidia decided to add this complexity to their midrange cards. Correct me if I am wrong, but the NV30/35 never output 8 pixel values at once, only 8 Z/stencil. And, considering the limit of this particular setup (no loopbacks, single texturing and no pixel shaders) I wonder if there are REAL situations (aside synthetic benchmarks) were the ability to write 2 pixels at once is used. Dropping this feature would have saved a few transistors without affecting too much the performance in real world apps.
IMHO nVidia reuse the ROP Design (and everything behind) from NV30. In this case the ROP allready can work with 4 pixel/clock.

The ability to write 4 (simple) pixel per clock is not very usefull for games at all. But In the case of CAD applications it should help much more.
Demirug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-04, 06:18 AM   #12
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: Technical details about the 5700

I believe you are right.

But Nvidia should have dropped the buffer compression technology (as they did for the FX5200) and integrate a true 4x1 pipeline design instead. It would have helped a lot in shading intensive apps as well as improving the overall efficiency of the card.

The 14.4 GB/s bandwidth of the Ultra is a little overkill for a 2x2 card running at almost the same speed of the memory. The GeForces 3/4, in comparsion, had twice the pipelines and they were not as efficient with AA/Aniso as the NV3x line is (even the tiny 5200U manages to fill the gap with GeForce4Ti when AA/Aniso are enabled).

How ironic is that the new GeForce 6600GT has almost the same bandwidth of my FX5700U yet it manages to outperform even previous generation high end cards. Honestly, if my old faitfhful GeForce4 hadn't died, I would have waited a few months more before upgrading.
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder

Last edited by msxyz; 09-10-04 at 07:03 AM.
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Leaked Microsoft document details $299 Xbox 720 in 2013, Kinect glasses, OnLive acqui News Archived News Items 0 06-17-12 06:30 AM
HPC on Your Phone: the Technical Vizualization Private Cloud News Archived News Items 0 06-05-12 09:00 PM
Showtime: SIGGRAPH 2012: Technical Papers Preview Trailers News Archived News Items 0 05-22-12 05:50 AM
What resolution do you all run Unreal2003 retail version at with all details on max.? imtim83 Gaming Central 9 10-04-02 11:17 AM
Any details on Nvidia's failed NV2 for SEGA? suburbanguy Rumor Mill 1 08-21-02 11:30 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2014, nV News.