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Old 10-27-04, 07:13 AM   #37
Ninjaman09
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickfut
ahh well , it was a good argument , lasted a while
No, a good argument is when both parties have clear, defensible points. Saying something absolutely insane and saying "NUH UH" every time someone responds isn't arguing. Don't go patting yourself on the back.
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Originally Posted by vampireuk
Yes we all know you can simply upgrade a Geforce 256 to a 6800GT by pirating some firmware
My card is actually an overclocked TNT2 flashed to 6800 Ultra BIOS! W00T! No money for nVidia!
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Old 10-27-04, 11:48 AM   #38
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

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No, a good argument is when both parties have clear, defensible points. Saying something absolutely insane and saying "NUH UH" every time someone responds isn't arguing. Don't go patting yourself on the back.
dont try and be a smart arse , tell me once where i said "NUH UH" ?

MODDING SOMETHING TO MAKE IT RUN FASTER SO YOU DONT HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON A HIGHER SPECIFICATION/PRICED PRODUCT IS LOSING THE MANUFACTURER IN MONEY GAINED FROM THE SALE OF THE HIGHER SPECIFIED PRODUCT. NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE IT , YOUR ARGUMENT IS POINTLESS

im not discussing legality issues , morality issues or anything else like that at all , some hardware suppliers may condone it as it helps with sales of the slightly lesser cards but at the risk of warranty but at the end of it do you think nvidia would like to sell 10 000 NU or 10 000 Ultras ?

also after you couple of pages of your drivel i see nothing from you that even pointed to anything slightly coherent in the basis of a "clear, defensible point" , you clearly never understood my point and went off on your merry little high and mighty rampage without anything interesting/ or productive to say

if you wish to continue this then fair enough , im happy to leave it be as you obviously cannot seem to grasp the simple concepts i am putting forward

over to you

Quote:
I have also said everything I need to say. Wikfut think that OC will get illegal soon and I think thats total BS and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
if microsoft manages to close down everyone moddifying xboxs then we shall see , im not in the know about matters but if one company manages to pull it off , who says others wont follow?
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Just give 1, just 1 link that idicates, that Nvidia doesn't like their custumers to OC their cards. Coolbits is also included in the latest ForceWare beta drivers and if these were implemented by Nvidia, there comes another reason of why your argument is invalid. You have nothing to back anything of what you say up, and besides it goes against all common sense to suggest that the customer doesn't have the right to tweak and mod his hardware, within the laws ofcause, and why OC soon should get illegal, I simply can't figure out how and why you have that idea and expecially how that can be compared with software piracy.
i dont have to supply a link , try sending your card back and on the return slip tell them that voltmodded or overclocked that card , try telling them also about you changed some of the things in the bios - that is proof enough that manufacturers do not want you to overclock.

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Now everything is said. I might take this discussion up with you again if you can give us some real arguments to prove just half of your statements true, but until then I see no sense in responeding anymore.
i was stating observations , i wasnt asking for a war in a forum , i dont actually give a **** what people on the net think of me as its not real life.

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PS: I didn't mean to call you a retard, I meant to make the retard smileym which is : retard : without the spaces, followed by a real smilie, just to make the sentence look sarcastic. I have now corrected the post and I apologize for the misunderstandment
no appology necessary , it is only the net. i dont get hung up - thanks anyway tho
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Old 10-27-04, 12:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickfut
if you wish to continue this then fair enough , im happy to leave it be as you obviously cannot seem to grasp the simple concepts i am putting forward
You're putting forward hypotheticals with regard to sales. You have no idea how much money graphics card companies are making or losing. Would NVIDIA like to sell a majority of 6800 Ultra cards? Absolutely. But you should know damn well that here in reality, the high end is not where the money is. The $500 video card segment accounts for maybe 10% of sales. The bread and butter is in the 6800 NU and lower cards. I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that the 6800 NU will outsell the Ultra by at least 5 to 1. The reality of this business is that you can't attempt to level the playing field between the two cards.

We do know how much money Valve is making off of people playing pirated copies of CS: Source - the big, fat goose egg, nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch, absolutely nothing. This alone makes your attempt at comparison invalid.
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Old 10-27-04, 12:14 PM   #40
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

wickfut - your conjecture is not based in reality, therefore cannot be argued as a point. It's very easy to grasp what you're saying. However, to make a valid argument you have to supply EVIDENCE or PROOF that what you are saying is true. You cannot, because your argument is based on a complete lack of knowledge of how the hardware industry works and a very skewed view of morality. The argument you make is no different than saying that it should be illegal to replace the stock CD player in your car with a new one. It makes no sense. Stealing software, on the other hand, is STEALING, which is illegal. You are unbelievably stupid, and I'm not continuing this conversation any further. *adds wickfut to ignore list*
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Old 10-27-04, 12:24 PM   #41
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

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You're putting forward hypotheticals with regard to sales. You have no idea how much money graphics card companies are making or losing.
yes , and so are you- your point being?
Quote:
Would NVIDIA like to sell a majority of 6800 Ultra cards? Absolutely. But you should know damn well that here in reality, the high end is not where the money is. The $500 video card segment accounts for maybe 10% of sales. The bread and butter is in the 6800 NU and lower cards. I'd be willing to bet my paycheck that the 6800 NU will outsell the Ultra by at least 5 to 1. The reality of this business is that you can't attempt to level the playing field between the two cards.
yes and once again i have to repeat myself , if you are buying a 6800NU and then modding it to open the pipes/overclocking it etc to reach the level of ultra you are basically getting an ultra for 1/2 price. this is taking income away from the manufacturer is it not ?
i am going to ask a question - will you answer it.

If you had put maybe $millions into research for a graphics cards and sold them for $300 , $400 and $500 - would you want people to buy the less expensive version and modify it to the higher version or would you prefare people to just buy the higher version ??

please answer that question. it is valid to this discussion because its quite clear that you would like people who want the performance of the $500 model to buy the $500 model. if you think that they dont, please explain why they actually released the $500 model and not just told everyone to go and buy the lesser cards and modify them.

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We do know how much money Valve is making off of people playing pirated copies of CS: Source - the big, fat goose egg, nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch, absolutely nothing. This alone makes your attempt at comparison invalid.
really ? so going by your video card logic then , if i had purchased the original counterstrike/halflife then valve have already made a profit from me and so do not mind me having the improved version for no extra fee

Quote:
wickfut - your conjecture is not based in reality, therefore cannot be argued as a point. It's very easy to grasp what you're saying. However, to make a valid argument you have to supply EVIDENCE or PROOF that what you are saying is true.
ok , heres proof - go and order a 6800nu . mod it / open pipes etc and run it at ultra levels - did the manufacturer get the same amount of money off you as they would if you had purchased an ultra?
NOPE

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You cannot, because your argument is based on a complete lack of knowledge of how the hardware industry works and a very skewed view of morality. The argument you make is no different than saying that it should be illegal to replace the stock CD player in your car with a new one.
please explain to me what relevence a car cd player has with anything?

Quote:
It makes no sense. Stealing software, on the other hand, is STEALING, which is illegal. You are unbelievably stupid, and I'm not continuing this conversation any further. *adds wickfut to ignore list*
you are correct , it is theft , what bit did i say it was not theft?

im glad you think i am stupid to the point of because i have a differnce of opinion to you that i deserve to go on your ignore list. you joined this discussion freely and because someone dissagree's with you , you ignore - grow up child
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Old 10-27-04, 01:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

I believe a lot of hardware manufacturers are giving away overclocking tools with hardware, they endorse overclocking. Do you see valve giving away 17 cd keys with every purchase?
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Old 10-27-04, 01:23 PM   #43
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickfut
ok , heres proof - go and order a 6800nu . mod it / open pipes etc and run it at ultra levels - did the manufacturer get the same amount of money off you as they would if you had purchased an ultra?
NOPE
That's not proof because you don't know how much the 6800 NU costs NVIDIA to produce. If it costs them $100 to make and I got mine retail for $300 but the 6800 Ultra costs $350 to make and sells for $500, I'd daresay NVIDIA made more money on my NU purchase than the Ultra.

Even if it was reversed and the profit margin for the NU is $150 and the Ultra is $200, it is a fact that the 6800 NU will outsell the Ultra. The former card is more readily available and there will be a greater perceived value of the product - $300 for a graphics card has a much nicer ring than $500.

Quote:
If you had put maybe $millions into research for a graphics cards and sold them for $300 , $400 and $500 - would you want people to buy the less expensive version and modify it to the higher version or would you prefare people to just buy the higher version ??
Irrelevant. Less than a small handful of people who buy the mod-able cards will do such a thing. Most folks who buy the mid-range or lesser cards know jack dick about modding. And a lot of people who do know, attempt a soft-mod and subsequently fail, still ultimately keep their cards because they're still satisfied with their purchase.
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Old 10-27-04, 04:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickfut
yes and once again i have to repeat myself , if you are buying a 6800NU and then modding it to open the pipes/overclocking it etc to reach the level of ultra you are basically getting an ultra for 1/2 price. this is taking income away from the manufacturer is it not ?
i am going to ask a question - will you answer it.
The answer is yes (or no) - depending on Nvidia's profit margin, as Sat explained.

The answer to the underlying moral question is slightly different - are we ripping Nvidia off by overclocking/unlocking pipelines?

No. The reason being is that because Nvidia chose to make their cards this way. They chose to set their tolerances for clock frequency, working pipeline number, etc, at a certain level - cards of a certain design will, depending on manufacturing defects, get past their testing into the 6800U bin, while some cards won't. And they chose to do things this way because it maximizes their profit. It's part of their business model.

To put it to you another way - this is the same as if you purchased a car and then proceeded to add a turbocharger that you picked up gratis from a friend. Suddenly your Focus has an extra 50* or so horsepower and you didn't have to spend a dime.

Have you stolen from Ford? (Hint - the answer is no. You purchased the car and it's now yours to do with as you see fit.)


(*Does not denote any real-life gains from said turbocharger. I know nothing about engines. )
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Old 10-27-04, 06:32 PM   #45
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

C'mon Vash, you know the real key to horsepower lies in big yellow stickers.
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Old 10-27-04, 06:55 PM   #46
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

And handcrafted, wooden spoilers!
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Old 10-28-04, 05:53 PM   #47
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Default Re: The %n Exploit's Effect on Illegal CS-S Copies

That happens to me and I bought the friggin game = /
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