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Old 10-28-04, 04:47 PM   #61
Edge
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

Ahh yes, you are correct that it's more like a video camera than your eye, I'll give you that. Although I still have a lot of trouble seeing something if it's in front of a bright light source...maybe my eyes are just worse than other people's. In the morning when I wake up I keep my eyes squinted for like 10 minutes before they adjust, guess my eyes are as lazy as I am sometimes
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Old 10-28-04, 04:54 PM   #62
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

It does depend on how much of the visual field the light fills - if the whole frame is bright then you won't be able to see small dark things. It's more if there's one very bright source, you'll still be able to see other dark things... if you see what I mean.
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Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
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Old 10-28-04, 06:06 PM   #63
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

they all look the same to me. but i dont have supervision so who knows..
nevermind i see, shiny stuff.. lots of shine. sorta like 3dfx visuals back in the day.
on another note.. what make you guys want to keep playing farcry? Has the multiplayer gotten any better with the new patch?
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Old 10-28-04, 11:19 PM   #64
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

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you are correct that it's more like a video camera than your eye, I'll give you that.

The first HDR FC vid that was shown by Ruined ( http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fchdr.wmv ) shows the complete opposite as what you see in real life. In the vid (standing in the cave, begin of first level) you look up, looking at the bright hole in the ceiling, and then you look down, into the tunnel.
In real life, when you look up in the bright light source, and then looking down in the (dark) tunnel you would see almost nothing for a couple of seconds. However, in the vid, just after looking down, the tunnel is clearly enlighted for some time, and then turns dark.

In Ruined's second vid (entering deck of the carrier, http://www.nvnews.net/temp/fc/fchdr2.wmv ) you can also see the exact opposite of real life. In real life, when you climb up the ladder, and arrive at the deck, you will be blinded by the bright light of the sun for a couple of seconds, having difficulty to see things proper. However, in the vid, they simply lower gamma just before/at the moment you reach the deck, like you put on sunglasses or something. You have a good vision immediately.

I think that the light/darken effect a lot of people rave about is just the settling in/off time of openexr HDR (icw gamma adjustments), nice, but it gives you the exact opposite of real life. (when Ruined enters the HDR command in first vid, you can see that the HDR has to take some time to settle itself in.)
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Old 10-28-04, 11:47 PM   #65
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

It's not the exact opposite. HDR simulates the light response curve of a cameras lens over time by various image processing steps. Because this is simulation it does cause radically incorrect responses some of the time, as you mentioned. Much of what occurs however is accurate with regards to the behaviour of a video camera.

As I stress, it CAN cause incorrect responses because it's a relatively crude simulation. This does not however mean that it causes the reverse of real life light response all the time.

Edit: Removed something slightly rude sounding (though not intended that way). Never hurts to be polite.
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Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
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Old 10-29-04, 04:32 AM   #66
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

What does Compressed Normal Maps do? More crisp bumpmapping?
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Old 10-29-04, 07:21 AM   #67
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

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Originally Posted by Frank J
What does Compressed Normal Maps do? More crisp bumpmapping?
No, it compresses normal maps. Basically all it involves is doing some texture compression so that normal textures take up less bandwidth when transferred to graphics memory and when stored in graphics memory. It basically nets you a performance boost (theoretically). Note that this is still VERY beta-y, and needs to be reloaded on a per-level-load basis. Unless they're doing some cunning shader work, it shouldn't give any boost in visual quality - cept that the normal compression artifacts might appeal to some people? Anyhow - here's a whitepaper on DXT-5 Normal map compression.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/b...mpression.html

(Note: If you're using an X800, you'll get 3Dc, which is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over DXT-5 for normal compression. At least, it's my understanding that 3Dc is used in Far Cry, though I have no confirmation of this.)
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Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
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Old 10-29-04, 09:57 AM   #68
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

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Well, the thing is that HDR renders things like your eye would see them. It makes the game harder because in real life if you were looking toward the sun
You are all forgetting one important aspect. When I play a game I don't want totally real. If we are shooting for reality the character should have to take a piss break every few hours or sleep. In games there is a fine line between game reality and too much reality. A graphics effect which obscures vision is an annoying way is not a good feature in my opinion. Far Cry is not a military simulation where wind, rain, snow, or sun need to be accurately simulated to impact the game player. Save those things for a mail man simulator.
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Old 10-29-04, 08:24 PM   #69
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

Well, I've released a new movie (I did remove the old one), its _much_ longer, featuring more scenes and better video quality, still XviD compression. Its recored using 1024x768 and after that croped to 608 (I can't remember why I did that really )

Here: http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/mis...y-hdr-demo.avi ~65MB xvid
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Old 10-30-04, 05:14 AM   #70
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

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Originally Posted by Frank J
That is definitely the best video of HDR demonstration I've seen. Very nice
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Old 10-30-04, 08:46 PM   #71
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

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Originally Posted by Frank J
What does Compressed Normal Maps do? More crisp bumpmapping?
Think BMP images -> JPG, or GIF.
take less room, but at a IQ loss, depending on how hard you compress it, and the content.. quality NEVER gets better when compressing tho.

on the subject, a image with 4 colors, a simple image, is better of in GIF, cause it wont loose any quality at all, and be alot smaller then in BMP (pretty much uncompressed), mainly due to the way GIF works, it only saves the colors that are used, so in this case it would only save 4 colors.
A photo however will look like crap in GIF cause it supports max 256 colors, and a photo needs ALOT more then that, so we use JPG, but JPG ruins images, compressing too much will make it look like crap, so you find a good balance between size and quality.
a JPG version of the 4 color image that GIF handled so well will if compressed to hard look like crap in JPG, cause it will have the typical artifacts of JPGs destructive compression, and with too loose compression be alot bigger then the GIF version, cause JPG works in a very different way.

3Dc as you surely have heard of is a very specific compression format, comparable with GIF i guess, it is better then ex DXT5 to compress certain types of textures, and can achive smaller sizes at higher quality (less loss from Uncompressed).
But it cant compress for example a regular Diffuse texture with a acceptable result, cause its only meant for certain ranges of colors that Normal Maps use (pink - blue I think).
Like GIF only works good on certain types of images.
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Old 11-01-04, 01:44 PM   #72
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Default Re: FarCry 1.3 OpenEXR HDR guide, screenshots, and movies

have been playing with HDR in Farcry .. really cool , its a feature next generation games should not miss.here are some shots comparisons.


No-HDR


------------------------------------

OpenEXR FP16



in the last shot what you see is before lighting adjust ,because is far more brilliant when you see it at first sight.only can be seen in motion.if you look at both shots you will notice the whiter sand and even the Sun reflections in the horizon in the HDR shots ,missing on the no-hdr. the colors are more intense where it should be according to the lighting and the darkness too . this add realism to the games ,for example in real world if the sun reflect on the sand of a beach ,it will look just like in farcry.. very bright almost as if it were radiating light by itself. water reflections and colors is nicer too. what is cool is (as other have pointed) is that this lighting is dynamic. sometimes is brighter than others depends if you comes from a place of shade or from a place of light. the colors are ritcher ,more brilliant and this has nothing to do with game brighness or gamma settings as others have pointed ,but the side effect of the Advanced lighting. This is perfectly playable ,at 1200x1024 ,with some tweaking like disable AF and lower the shadows quality a bit you can even raise the resolutions more and get playable framerates. Doom3 should look even more amazing with something like this

here are others shots..

non HDR



HDR


notice there here the lamps. the painted duller look of the lighting in the first one versus the HDR one. the side effect is more briliant colored surfaces . is an irony but this looks like the diferences of Ps1.3 vs Sm3.0 demostrated by Nvidia in their launch. can't wait to see more games using this tech.
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Last edited by Nv40; 11-01-04 at 02:22 PM.
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