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Old 07-28-02, 10:42 PM   #25
Remi
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Quote:
Originally posted by retsam
The only other point we can share is that NV30 will use a 256 Bit memory bus and DDR2 memory.

I thought the nv30 was using a 128 bit ddrII bus not a 256 ddrII bus can some one please clarafy this for me please
rets
If I remember well, NVidia stated implicetely nv30 would not use 256 bits, announced the tape out (end of design); ATI launched the R300, we heard of unexpected delays for nv30 and the last thing we know... bing! It is there! Looks like the architecture team has been busy during those unexpected delays...
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Old 07-28-02, 10:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
If I remember well, NVidia stated implicetely nv30 would not use 256 bits, announced the tape out (end of design); ATI launched the R300, we heard of unexpected delays for nv30 and the last thing we know... bing! It is there! Looks like the architecture team has been busy during those unexpected delays...
Very very very unlikely. There are soo many things that would have to change if you jumped from 128 to 256 memory bus (like packaging, pin out, PCB routing, the crossbar controllers would have to change meaning more or grow from a 32 bit to a 64 bit ect).

nV30 is done. About the only thing they can do know is tweak the fab process to get the speed, yeilds or minor bugs fixed.
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Old 07-28-02, 11:39 PM   #27
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here's what i found most interesting in that article
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NV30 is different from its predecessors because it focuses more on the GPU rather than the memory. The shift means that the performance bottleneck shifts from memory efficiency to computing efficiency. In addition to this the NV30 includes better algorithms for detecting when hidden pixels that applications are not rendered through the system. This is known as an extension to Hidden Surface Removal and will be a part of a new system NVIDIA said we couldn't talk about, at this time.
we've been bandwidth limited for such a long time, ever since the gf1
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Old 07-29-02, 01:07 AM   #28
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To me, it looks like ATI is doing something similar to what nvidia did with the 4200. Only the 4600 & 4400 were annonced/released, then a month or two later, we saw the 4200 show up.

Maybe this time, we'll get the nv30 equivalent of all 3 at once.
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Old 07-29-02, 06:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbirney
Very very very unlikely. There are soo many things that would have to change if you jumped from 128 to 256 memory bus (like packaging, pin out, PCB routing, the crossbar controllers would have to change meaning more or grow from a 32 bit to a 64 bit ect).
You're probably right, it is just that.... as their architecture group seems to study a lot of things in advance and as they have several teams working simultaneously on different projects, I would not be that surprized if the right solutions were already almost fully designed when they decided to put them into silicium... In addition, those guys certainly do know how to do their job fast.
Just speculations however... not based on any other facts than that string of events. If someone have a better explanation, sharing is certainly welcome!
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Old 07-29-02, 06:02 PM   #30
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Can someone please post the link to the David Kirk interview where he talks about 256 bit interfaces being "overkill"? I am interested in the exact wording he used.
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Old 07-29-02, 06:56 PM   #31
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Good luck, it's not in English:
Kirk Interview
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Old 07-29-02, 08:25 PM   #32
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I'm actually hoping they only release two versions of the NV30...
budget, which is a non crippled yet non supremely fast version, and regular
As it is I'd rather get a 4400 because it isn't crippled, and doesn't cost my legs.
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Old 07-29-02, 08:30 PM   #33
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Thanks for the link.

It's pretty much what I thought. Currently, a number of people don't believe NV30 can be 256 bit memory because David Kirk said he thought it was excessive. People interpretted this as "NV30 will be 128 bit." But from google and babblefish translations, David Kirk actually said he thought it was excessive "at the moment." But what is "a moment" to nVidia? Also, remember that this interview was right after Parhelia was announced with 256 bit memory interface. We see where that chips performs compared to the 128 bit GF4 line.

If NV30 is 256 bit memory (and it's still rumors to me until NV actually announces), I see absolutly no contradictions from Kirk from this interview.
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Old 07-29-02, 09:19 PM   #34
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Good point, "at the moment" might mean on .15 process for instance... What's your opinion?
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Old 07-29-02, 09:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Remi
Good point, "at the moment" might mean on .15 process for instance... What's your opinion?
"at the moment" could also have been used to talk about the pseudo DX9 Parhelia. aka, it might not be farfetched for a true DX9 part. obviously these "cinematic effects in real time" will gobble a lot of bandwidth
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Old 07-29-02, 11:05 PM   #36
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I know David Kirk isn't usually giving many hints about real future products. I think his "at the moment" statement really was about what was out or really close to being out. I don't think he said NV30 will not be 256 bits at all.

Slightly related to this. I went back to look at the Parhelia specs. Am I missing something or is the 256 bit interfaceof the Parhelia not muliplexed? By that I mean something like nvidia's crossbar where the 128 bit is actually 4x32 bits. I know ATI went multiplex with R300. Seems this could play a significant role in effective memory bandwidth use.
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