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Old 11-18-04, 04:16 PM   #25
Razor1
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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Originally Posted by jbirney
Finally remember those Doom3 benchmarks that NV sponsered? ATI never even knew about the test. NV not only knew about it but had their own demos. However very few people here seemed to care back then about being fair.


Look the point is depending on the level and the time demo you are going to see varing scores. And so far ATI seems to be faster.

wrong again. As it always was before depends on the levels....

The GeForce 6800 Ultra performs very similarly to the X800 XT as long as antialiasing and anisotropic filtering are disabled. With those two features enabled, the X800 XT begins to show a performance advantage that is truly seen at 1280 x 1024 and 1600 x 1200 with 4X AA enabled. If you are running with AA disabled, the two GPUs perform very similar to each other. It is only at 1600 x 1200 that the performance becomes somewhat noticeable between the two, as the X800 XT averaged 8% faster than the 6800 Ultra. However, turning on antialiasing and anisotropic filtering gave the X800 XT between a 4 – 20% advantage depending on resolution, which definitely isn’t shabby.

At the $400 price point, the X800 Pro and the GeForce 6800GT are basically equal performers in all of the resolutions we tested (regardless of whether or not AA/aniso was enabled). So the recommendation here goes either way, look at the performance of the cards in some of the other games you play to determine which one is right for you.

If you’re spending $200 - $300 you’ve got three choices for PCI Express graphics cards, and one for AGP. The NVIDIA GeForce 6800 is 12-pipe underclocked version of the 6800GT/Ultra and currently sells for close to $300, however in Half Life 2 the performance of the regular 6800 is not any better than the cheaper 6600GT, thus making our NVIDIA recommendation clear. But how does the 6600GT stack up to the X700 XT? The two GPUs are basically equal performers under Half Life 2, although the X700 XT is faster with AA enabled. If you need an AGP card however, then the 6600GT AGP is your only option (and far from a bad one at that).

We’ve left a number of questions unanswered here today involving older/slower hardware, so be sure to check back for part II of our Half Life GPU comparison to find out how well older hardware performs under Valve’s amazing game. Thanks for taking a break from playing Half Life 2 to read this, now get back to it…


now when you take a look that this, why is nvidia losing so much ground with a not so intensive game. And it only losses in Anandtech's with AA and AF on so my guess it seems nV drivers are more cpu dependented on this game. Which can be optimized for.
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Old 11-18-04, 04:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

first off the GT does not wipe the board with the Pro, for example in timedemo of the coast at 4xaa/8xaf the pro gets 107.76 and the GT gets 107.23. So technically it does not wipe the board.
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Old 11-18-04, 05:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

Wahh wahh wahh.. quit the bickering and go play some games! have fun guys, benchmarks don't mean crap when the games run well on all the new cards! "You wasted yer money! I get 5 fps more than you! ATI is king!" "No! Nvidia rules!" It's so close this round that no one can truly say that one is dominant over the other. Enjoy your investment!
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Old 11-19-04, 09:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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Originally Posted by Razor1
so you're saying ATI seems to perform better with shader less intenstive parts of HL2? damn that goes against eveything you said before about pixel shader performance. Ok you can believe Firing squads benches if you want, but they seem to have always used maps and drivers slanted towards ATi, just like the Far Cry benchmarks where they only use outdoor scenes!
No I was saying that using NVs newest Beta driver can help but its not going to add 40 fps back during shader limited parts. Don't believe me? Fine, Xbit lab's testing both NV drivers:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...lf-life_4.html

Quote:
We also wanted to check out the influence of NVIDIA’s new driver (ForceWare 67.02) on the performance, but found that the difference between the new version and ForceWare 66.93 was no more than 1-2fps in the three scenes we used in our tests. Considering that the absolute fps rates are about 60-100fps, this difference fits into the measurement error range.
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now when you take a look that this, why is nvidia losing so much ground with a not so intensive game. And it only losses in Anandtech's with AA and AF on so my guess it seems nV drivers are more cpu dependented on this game. Which can be optimized for.
Xbits numbers also seems to back up FS numbers as other sites show that the XT has a bigger lead before AA/AF are even turned on when your in the water levels. So you dont believe FS or Xbit. Fine lets go to a 3rd site that shows the same thing:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=6


Granted since the whole game is not played on the water its not that big of a deal but its does show why/where ATI wanted to flex its PR pimpage..
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Old 11-19-04, 12:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?ai...pe=expert&pid=6
The IQ settings are not max in there tests. They used reflect world and not reflect all. With reflect all, the NV cards take a large hit.
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Old 11-19-04, 12:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbirney
No I was saying that using NVs newest Beta driver can help but its not going to add 40 fps back during shader limited parts. Don't believe me? Fine, Xbit lab's testing both NV drivers:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...lf-life_4.html





Xbits numbers also seems to back up FS numbers as other sites show that the XT has a bigger lead before AA/AF are even turned on when your in the water levels. So you dont believe FS or Xbit. Fine lets go to a 3rd site that shows the same thing:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid...e=expert&pid=6


Granted since the whole game is not played on the water its not that big of a deal but its does show why/where ATI wanted to flex its PR pimpage..
Funny thing is nvidia didn't need to pimp one level in any Ogl game or Doom 3? Don't slant the topic saying that one benchmark tests were slanted when they weren't. What you stated before about the Doom 3 benchs done by [H] both parties were there, both had beta drivers both had equal time to optimize for thier drivers too, these benchmarks are ATi time demos, so they are biased! ATi has no choice but to pimp only one aspect of HL 2 because there is no other place they have any significant lead in a game they spent how much?
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Old 11-19-04, 12:51 PM   #31
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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Originally Posted by Razor1
Funny thing is nvidia didn't need to pimp one level in any Ogl game or Doom 3? Don't slant the topic saying that one benchmark tests were slanted when they weren't. What you stated before about the Doom 3 benchs done by [H] both parties were there, both had beta drivers both had equal time to optimize for thier drivers too, these benchmarks are ATi time demos, so they are biased! ATi has no choice but to pimp only one aspect of HL 2 because there is no other place they have any significant lead in a game they spent how much?
I stated whats going on but I will state it again for you. The big differece is the water settings. The ones that show ATI winning has the reflect all setting and that is the MAX setting for water. The review that show Nvidia and ATI a tie has the reflect world setting and that is a lower water setting then reflect all.
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Old 11-19-04, 01:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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I stated whats going on but I will state it again for you. The big differece is the water settings. The ones that show ATI winning has the reflect all setting and that is the MAX setting for water. The review that show Nvidia and ATI a tie has the reflect world setting and that is a lower water setting then reflect all.

which doesn't make sense, reflective water automatically takes 2 passes ATI doesn't get hit at all! if its realtime reflection, now I have never seen any difference using realtime reflection in Far Cry, Doom 3 on the different IHV cards. why is it happening here and only here? Far Cry Doom 3 and Half Life 2 all have 2 types of reflective surfaces. One done with realtime cube maps, one with premade cube maps, Using premade cube maps in Far Cry and Doom 3, is very fast with almost no speed difference and almost no image changes either. Here is the problem can you tell the difference between realtime reflection and pre made cube map reflection if the quality of the pre made cube map is at a high resolution on a refractive surface? Has ATi cards and new drivers been tested with thier AI off?
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Old 11-19-04, 03:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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Originally Posted by Razor1
which doesn't make sense, reflective water automatically takes 2 passes ATI doesn't get hit at all! if its realtime reflection, now I have never seen any difference using realtime reflection in Far Cry, Doom 3 on the different IHV cards. why is it happening here and only here? Far Cry Doom 3 and Half Life 2 all have 2 types of reflective surfaces. One done with realtime cube maps, one with premade cube maps, Using premade cube maps in Far Cry and Doom 3, is very fast with almost no speed difference and almost no image changes either. Here is the problem can you tell the difference between realtime reflection and pre made cube map reflection if the quality of the pre made cube map is at a high resolution on a refractive surface? Has ATi cards and new drivers been tested with thier AI off?

Your missing what I said. The water settings changes what is refleced. The Reflect all reflects everything. The reflect world only reflects some things.


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Old 11-19-04, 05:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

I did some tests:

1280x1024x 16AF (without af mipmap opt. for the 6800U!), max IQ , "waterreflect "all", with a FX53

anand's demos,

6800U, driver 70.41:

canals 08 90 fps
coasts 05 113
coasts 12 99
prison 05 111
C17-12 73

X800 XT PE :

canals 08 88 fps
coasts 05 115
coasts 12 105
prison 05 119
C17-12 73

ocp-benchmarks;

6800U

canals01 112
coast 03 100
Canals09 60

X800XT PE

canals01 106
coast 03 103
Canals09 75



As you can see only canal09 takes a hit on 6800 hardware.
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Old 11-19-04, 05:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinner
I did some tests:

1280x1024x 16AF (without af mipmap opt. for the 6800U!), max IQ , "waterreflect "all", with a FX53

anand's demos,

6800U, driver 70.41:

canals 08 90 fps
coasts 05 113
coasts 12 99
prison 05 111
C17-12 73

X800 XT PE :

canals 08 88 fps
coasts 05 115
coasts 12 105
prison 05 119
C17-12 73

ocp-benchmarks;

6800U

canals01 112
coast 03 100
Canals09 60

X800XT PE

canals01 106
coast 03 103
Canals09 75



As you can see only canal09 takes a hit on 6800 hardware.
do you have your cat ai on? can you turn them off if they are on and test?
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Old 11-19-04, 05:56 PM   #36
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Default Re: Official HardOCP HL2 benchmarks

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Originally Posted by {Sniping}Waste
Your missing what I said. The water settings changes what is refleced. The Reflect all reflects everything. The reflect world only reflects some things.


no I'm not missing your point, I'm trying to figure out why its hurting the gf and not the radeon, Reflect world is your premade cm, Reflect all is real time reflection. It should hurt both cards equally, There really is no extra geomtry calculations just that its a render to texture at every single frame. I might be wrong with the premade CM but even then if the geometry is double it still shouldn't be enough to stress either card, I think its near the million mark when ATI's vertex shader performance will really show through.
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