McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President - Page 2

oldsk00l · 11-22-04, 03:54 PM

A liberal would just sit and argue that conservatism just leads to anarchy. Can't make anyone happy.

netviper13 · 11-22-04, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yonkers

Fear leads to hate. Hate leats to liberalism and liberalism leads to socialism and that is the dark side.

I couldn't help my self but seriously liberalism leads to socialism.

Conservativism leads to fascism. Come on man, we've had this argument a million times over, neither extreme liberalism nor extreme conservativism are good ideas.

Fatman · 11-22-04, 04:07 PM

All labels aside, McCaine has a head on his shoulders and can speak his mind. Plus he has the balls to say what's on his mind. All the things that the other 99.9% of public servants in DC lack these days. For what its worth, he has my vote.

sytaylor · 11-22-04, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yonkers

Fear leads to hate. Hate leats to liberalism and liberalism leads to socialism and that is the dark side.

I couldn't help my self but seriously liberalism leads to socialism.

See liberty and socialism are two completley separate concepts. One is about how the judicial system is balanced while the other is about the economic and social structure of the nation.

Yonkers · 11-22-04, 04:54 PM

No, socialism is the natural progression of liberalism. In other words liberalism is socialism-light. Liberalism at least has the basica tennants of capitalism but with much more centralized control than conservatism. They are just lines of though that lead to the economic policies.

sytaylor · 11-23-04, 04:06 AM

Nah uh...

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberalism

A liberal ideal has nothing to do with economics whatsoever, someone mentioning the two in the same breath has their definitions mixed up.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberalism

Socialsm is the "commie" style government controls everything ideal. Liberalism is actually a form of ideal that rejects the dominance of authority to some extend and tries to protect the liberty of the individual. The mere fact the US media, and in particular the US far right have bastardised the word is irrelevant. Liberalism and socialsm are not connected by anything other than that a high proportion of people who are overtly liberal are also overtly socialist. This does not mean a fiscal conservative should be pure authoritarian.

Yonkers · 11-23-04, 09:05 AM

Yes, neat so you used the dictionary but the dictionary does not reflect current uses of the word and liberalism is as I have stated in the US. It might be different over there but not here and it is NOT irrelevant and further more I don't think you have a clue about liberals in America.

zakelwe · 11-23-04, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yonkers

Yes, neat so you used the dictionary but the dictionary does not reflect current uses of the word and liberalism is as I have stated in the US. It might be different over there but not here and it is NOT irrelevant and further more I don't think you have a clue about liberals in America.

I doubt the average liberal in the USA wants a socialist government, you all love capitalism too much. Liberalism is more about putting a cap on Jesus and Co. and letting people not be bound by strict codes / rules as far as I can tell.

Regards

Andy

Yonkers · 11-23-04, 11:26 AM

Quote:

I doubt the average liberal in the USA wants a socialist government

I am not talking about the average liberal. I am talking about in American politics, the Democratic leaders, and activists. The "average" liberal" is a capitalist but believes in the big goverment lie that a centeral entity can effectively take care of a country.

Quote:

Liberalism is more about putting a cap on Jesus and Co.

That is not what liberalism is about. That may be what you are about but liberalism is indeed (in America) socialism light.

oldsk00l · 11-23-04, 11:42 AM

Socialists are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government. Liberals are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government.

That's about all the definition one needs.

sytaylor · 11-23-04, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldsk00l

Socialists are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government. Liberals are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government.

That's about all the definition one needs.

My point is by definition liberals are NOT, so when I argue the values of liberty I'm not arguing for socialism. The fact you guys are calling socialists liberals is your own damn fault and not mine. Therefore McCain being somewhat Liberal is a good thing, just like it was for Abraham Lincoln.

Yonkers · 11-23-04, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sytaylor

My point is by definition liberals are NOT, so when I argue the values of liberty I'm not arguing for socialism. The fact you guys are calling socialists liberals is your own damn fault and not mine. Therefore McCain being somewhat Liberal is a good thing, just like it was for Abraham Lincoln.

You are not using terms that are real in American politics. That's what is important. You being an outsider will bang your head on your definition because it is not what is used here in our political lexicon. So to get upset or keep trying to press your dictionary.com definition is rather silly.

We are at an impass. I say it really isn't worth arguing so lets go have a pint and throw darts.

11-22-04, 03:54 PM	#13
oldsk00l BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,088	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President A liberal would just sit and argue that conservatism just leads to anarchy. Can't make anyone happy.

11-22-04, 04:07 PM	#15
Fatman Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 598	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President All labels aside, McCaine has a head on his shoulders and can speak his mind. Plus he has the balls to say what's on his mind. All the things that the other 99.9% of public servants in DC lack these days. For what its worth, he has my vote. __________________ Desktop: P4 3.4EE - 1GB Kingston HyperX - Asus P4C800-E Delux - PNY 6800 Ultra - Audigy 2 ZS - 2 WD 120GB SE - 8x Pioneer A07 DVD Combo Burner - 16x Samsung DVD Reader - Antec 480W - Antec P160 Case - ViewSonic VP201s Mobile Rig: Inspiron 8600 - Pentium M 2.0GHz - 1GB PC2700 - ATI Radeom Mobility 9600 128MB - Hitachi 60GB 7200RPM HDD - 8X CD-RW/DVD-ROM Drive - 15.4" WXGA Wide Display

11-22-04, 04:54 PM	#17
Yonkers Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,058	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President No, socialism is the natural progression of liberalism. In other words liberalism is socialism-light. Liberalism at least has the basica tennants of capitalism but with much more centralized control than conservatism. They are just lines of though that lead to the economic policies.

11-23-04, 04:06 AM	#18
sytaylor Cerebral Barbarian Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 11,689	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President Nah uh... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberalism A liberal ideal has nothing to do with economics whatsoever, someone mentioning the two in the same breath has their definitions mixed up. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberalism Socialsm is the "commie" style government controls everything ideal. Liberalism is actually a form of ideal that rejects the dominance of authority to some extend and tries to protect the liberty of the individual. The mere fact the US media, and in particular the US far right have bastardised the word is irrelevant. Liberalism and socialsm are not connected by anything other than that a high proportion of people who are overtly liberal are also overtly socialist. This does not mean a fiscal conservative should be pure authoritarian. __________________ Intel Core 2 Quad Pro Q6600 @ 3.42GHz \| Abit IP35 Pro \| GeIL 4GB DDR2 Gainward BLISS GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB 770/1920/1070 Creative Audigy 2ZS on Logitech Z-680s Yuraku 24" Widescreen monitor It saddens me that I need the following to post here: Disclaimer: Any views expressed in the above post under the psuedonym "sytaylor" are entirely subjective and do not reflect the views of any business, company or entity associated with Simon Taylor. The use, copying of or editing of any materials within this post for professional purposes without written permission is stricly prohibitted under the UK Right of Privacy as provided in the Human Rights Act 1998 and the European Convention on Human Rights: Article 10 ECHR. Any attempt to use the information herin shall be subject to the Data Protection Act and Freedom of Information act, with damages being saught for defamation. This disclaimer applies to all text, images or media on this domain. You have been warned. My Blog

11-23-04, 09:05 AM	#19
Yonkers Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,058	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President Yes, neat so you used the dictionary but the dictionary does not reflect current uses of the word and liberalism is as I have stated in the US. It might be different over there but not here and it is NOT irrelevant and further more I don't think you have a clue about liberals in America.

11-23-04, 11:42 AM	#22
oldsk00l BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,088	Re: McCain Not Ruling Out Run for President Socialists are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government. Liberals are for gratuitously high government spending and expanse in government. That's about all the definition one needs.

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