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Old 12-03-02, 10:51 PM   #61
Deraj
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Angry Being fixed?

Is this issue ever going to be fixed?
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Old 12-17-02, 05:37 PM   #62
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Default Some Investigation

Based on top, X takes 99.9% CPU during startup. The problem is not related to modeline probing.

I wanted to know exactly what was taking so much time - and when during the X startup sequence.

So I wrote a script that basically tailed the XFree log file and interlaced the output with time stamps to another file. I had to renice X to +20 and my script to -20 to get some meaningful results.

What I found was that things really start slowing down immediately after sub module vgahw is loaded.

Looks like a race condition from there.

Anyway, here is my XFree log (chopped) + time stamps:

========= Start Tue Dec 17 18:02:59 MST 2002

XFree86 Version 4.2.0 (Red Hat Linux release: 4.2.0-72) / X Window System
(protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6600)
Release Date: 23 January 2002
If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is
newer than the above date, look for a newer version before

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:00 MST 2002

(II) PCI: End of PCI scan
(II) LoadModule: "scanpci"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
II) All system resource ranges:
[0] -1 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[b](B)
[1] -1 0x00100000 - 0x0fffffff (0xff00000) MX[b]E(B)
[2] -1 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[b]
[3] -1 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[b]
[4] -1 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:01 MST 2002

(II) LoadModule: "dbe"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdbe.a
(II) Module dbe: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
(II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER
(II) LoadModule: "extmod"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libextmod.a
(II) Module extmod: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
(II) Loading extension SHAPE
(II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD
(II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS
(II) Loading extension SYNC
(II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
(II) Loading extension XC-MISC
(II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension
(II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc
(II) Loading extension DPMS
(II) Loading extension FontCache
(II) Loading extension TOG-CUP
(II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information
(II) Loading extension XVideo
(II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation
(II) Loading extension X-Resource
(II) LoadModule: "freetype"

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:01 MST 2002

(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libfreetype.a
(II) Module freetype: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.1.10
Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.3
(II) Loading font FreeType
(II) LoadModule: "glx"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.so

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:01 MST 2002

(II) Module glx: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.4191
Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
(II) Loading extension GLX
(II) LoadModule: "nvidia"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:02 MST 2002

(II) Module nvidia: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.4191
Module class: XFree86 Video Driver
(II) LoadModule: "mouse"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o
(II) Module mouse: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver
ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.3
(II) NVIDIA XFree86 Driver 1.0-4191 Mon Dec 9 11:51:41 PST 2002
(II) NVIDIA Unified Driver for all NVIDIA GPUs
(II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0
(--) Assigning device section with no busID to primary device
(--) Chipset NVIDIA GPU found
(II) Setting vga for screen 0.
(II) Loading sub module "vgahw"
(II) LoadModule: "vgahw"

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:02 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:05 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:18 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:20 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:33 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:34 MST 2002

(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a
(II) Module vgahw: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 0.1.0
ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.5
(**) NVIDIA(0): Depth 16, (--) framebuffer bpp 16
(==) NVIDIA(0): RGB weight 565
(==) NVIDIA(0): Default visual is TrueColor
(==) NVIDIA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0)
(--) NVIDIA(0): Linear framebuffer at 0xF6000000
(--) NVIDIA(0): MMIO registers at 0xF4000000

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:35 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:49 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:50 MST 2002

(II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU detected as: RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro

========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:51 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:52 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:53 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:54 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:03:55 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:09 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:09 MST 2002

(--) NVIDIA(0): VideoRAM: 32768 kBytes

========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:10 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:11 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:11 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:24 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:25 MST 2002

(--) NVIDIA(0): Detected TV Encoder: Brooktree 874
(--) NVIDIA(0): Display 0: maximum pixel clock at 8 bpp: 250 MHz
(--) NVIDIA(0): Display 0: maximum pixel clock at 16 bpp: 250 MHz
(--) NVIDIA(0): Display 0: maximum pixel clock at 32 bpp: 215 MHz
(II) Loading sub module "ddc"
(II) LoadModule: "ddc"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libddc.a
(II) Module ddc: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.5

========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:25 MST 2002

(WW) NVIDIA(0): The user specified VertRefresh "50.000-85.000" has been
(WW) NVIDIA(0): adjusted to "56.000-85.000" (the intersection with
(WW) NVIDIA(0): EDID-specified VertRefresh "56.000-85.000"
(II) NVIDIA(0): SAMSUNG: Using hsync range of 31.50-79.00 kHz
(II) NVIDIA(0): SAMSUNG: Using vrefresh range of 56.00-85.00 Hz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Clock range: 12.00 to 250.00 MHz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1024x768" (vrefresh out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "512x384" (vrefresh out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1280x960" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x480" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x512" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1280x1024" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x512" (hsync out of range)
(WW) (1600x1200,SAMSUNG) mode clock 162MHz exceeds DDC maximum 130MHz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1600x1200" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "800x600" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "896x672" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1792x1344" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "896x672" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "928x696" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1856x1392" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "928x696" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "960x720" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1920x1440" (bad mode clock/interlace/doublescan)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "960x720" (hsync out of range)
(WW) (1400x1050,SAMSUNG) mode clock 151MHz exceeds DDC maximum 130MHz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "700x525" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1400x1050" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "700x525" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "1920x1200" (hsync out of range)
(II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "960x600" (hsync out of range)
(**) NVIDIA(0): Validated modes for Display Device 0:
(**) NVIDIA(0): Default mode "1280x1024": 108.0 MHz, 64.0 kHz, 60.0 Hz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1280 x 1024
(--) NVIDIA(0): Display dimensions: (340, 270) mm
(--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (95, 96)
(II) Loading sub module "fb"
(II) LoadModule: "fb"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libfb.a

========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:26 MST 2002

(II) Module fb: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 1.0.0
ABI class: XFree86 ANSI C Emulation, version 0.1
(II) Loading sub module "ramdac"
(II) LoadModule: "ramdac"
(II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libramdac.a
(II) Module ramdac: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
compiled for 4.2.0, module version = 0.1.0
ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.5
(II) do I need RAC? No, I don't.

========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:27 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:28 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:29 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:30 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:32 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:46 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:04:48 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:01 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:01 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:02 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:03 MST 2002

(II) NVIDIA(0): AGP 4X successfully initialized

========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:17 MST 2002

(II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "1280x1024"

========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:18 MST 2002

(II) NVIDIA(0): Using the NVIDIA 2D acceleration architecture
(==) NVIDIA(0): Backing store disabled
(==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse enabled
(II) Loading extension NV-GLX
(II) Loading extension NV-CONTROL
(II) Initializing built-in extension MIT-SHM
(II) Initializing built-in extension XInputExtension
(II) Initializing built-in extension XTEST
(II) Initializing built-in extension XKEYBOARD
(II) Initializing built-in extension LBX
(II) Initializing built-in extension XC-APPGROUP
(II) Initializing built-in extension SECURITY
(II) Initializing built-in extension XINERAMA
(II) Initializing built-in extension XFree86-Bigfont
(II) Initializing built-in extension RENDER
(II) [GLX]: Initializing GLX extension
(**) Option "Protocol" "PS/2"
(**) Mouse1: Protocol: "PS/2"
(**) Option "CorePointer"
(**) Mouse1: Core Pointer
(**) Option "Device" "/dev/mouse"

========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:19 MST 2002

(==) Mouse1: Buttons: 3
(II) Keyboard "Keyboard1" handled by legacy driver
(II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Mouse1" (type: MOUSE)

========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:20 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:21 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:22 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:23 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:24 MST 2002
========== Tue Dec 17 18:05:25 MST 2002
=========== Done Tue Dec 17 18:05:26 MST 2002
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Old 12-17-02, 06:40 PM   #63
Deraj
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Default

My experience was that everything on my computer (even top and "real-time" priority processes, like video capture) completely stopped during several seconds while starting up X.

I'm not an expert with threading and processes, but I'm thinking that this would support the race condition hypothesis, correct?
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Old 12-17-02, 07:57 PM   #64
bwkaz
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Default Re: Some Investigation

Quote:
Originally posted by LinuxRules
What I found was that things really start slowing down immediately after sub module vgahw is loaded.
So... don't load the vgahw module? Sounds like a plan to me... Though my system doesn't load "vgahw" anyway, so I wouldn't miss it. Anyone know what that module even does?

Quote:
Originally posted by Deraj
I'm not an expert with threading and processes, but I'm thinking that this would support the race condition hypothesis, correct?
No, it wouldn't. A race condition is defined as what happens when 2 conditions hold (gotta love them pounding that into our heads in my Operating Systems class... ):[list=1][*]Two processes or threads, executing concurrently, are accessing a shared piece of data at the same time[*]The outcome can differ depending on the exact ordering of assembly instructions[/list=1] By this definition, high CPU utilization has nothing to do with a race at all, so I'm sort of confused as to what *both* of you mean when you say "a race condition"...
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Old 12-18-02, 07:11 AM   #65
Wolfman [TWP]
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Jeremy:

You stated that your system has 128MB's of RAM. I've read that it requires 128MB's of RAM minimum to run X and at least 192MB's or more to run it properly.. This may very well be your problem.

I can't quote on that as most of my systems run 512MB's minimum..

Who know's this may be the cause of the slow startup and such..
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Old 12-18-02, 06:33 PM   #66
Deraj
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Except keep in mind that I don't see a high CPU utilization while starting X, EVERYTHING on the computer stops for several seconds. The screen stops updating, my real-time priority video captures stop working.

There may be high CPU utilization, but programs like top and such (even renice'd to the highest priorities) are never given a chance to update. Basically it's like the computer hangs for a little while (or at least that's the user's experience)

Does this sound like what anyone else is experiencing?

Oh, and Wolfman, I've got 256MB of RAM and I've got the same problem. I'm pretty sure it's unrelated to memory issues seeing as how I don't hear my hard drive doing any swapping while loading X a 2nd time.
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Old 12-19-02, 10:31 AM   #67
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Default X slowdown

Did some more tests. The vgahw module loads whether there is an entry in the XF86config file. So - like the professor kindly suggested, I cant bypass vgahws loading. Anyway, I tried turning off dbe, type1, freetype even glx.

Now by altering the startup timings, I saw that the slowdown may not have anything to do with vgahw itself anyway. Slowdown had already begun before loading vgahw, and given that the system is in complete molasses, my timings are unreliable during the slowdown.

So I tried something else. I tried running X in gdb (with no symbols...). The slowdown starts immediately after xf86VidMem() is called. More precisely after an xf86ioctl() call.

In my XFree log, it looks like the start of the slowdown corresponds to

(--) NVIDIA(0): MMIO registers at 0xF4000000

I downloaded the XFree86 source tree and will do some more tests later.
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Old 12-19-02, 11:18 AM   #68
CheeseCoiw
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Post

I've had this experience for a LONG time. It have happened in Windows 2000, Windows XP and now Gentoo Linux.

I have been talking to my vendor, MSI, and they said that the Nvidia reference drivers weren't working well with their cards. But their drivers are too old to be used for serious gaming.

Anyways, my system FREEZES too, for 15-20 seconds when starting X. And it is slow when Alt-switching to a console. Also, in Windows XP, when in the "advanced display properities" clicking the "Geforce4" tab, my system freezes too. But my WinAmp buffer is usually large enough to compensate for it. This only lasts for a few seconds though, but it is basically the same thing. Also starting XP have been very slow in the past, just like X. With the latest drivers 41.09, I believe, it is a bit better.

The nvidia-driver issue is really the one thing that really annoys me. Any chance of improving the responisveness when switching to/from X, or when starting X? It really is a bitch. Also, I wonder if this may have something to do with the motherboard? I will consider startup responsivness/init time as an important factor when choosing my next GFX card, sometime in february. It is crap to have a system that boots in 15 seconds, with a GFX card that uses 20 sec. to initialize.

Mine is a VIA KM133, AtlonXP 1800, 512MB 133Mhz SDRAM, GeForce4 MX440.
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Old 12-23-02, 02:00 PM   #69
BrianzaMan
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Hi,

I have a problem like this to:

Creative (Made by MSI) Geforce 3 Ti200

MSI KT4 Ultra

Athlon 2400+

X takes 2-3 minutes to start with drivers 4191!!

How can I reduce this time??

I can only use 3xxx drivers that haven't this problem

Bye

Marcello
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Old 12-24-02, 06:09 AM   #70
Wolfman [TWP]
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Quote:
Originally posted by CheeseCoiw
I have been talking to my vendor, MSI, and they said that the Nvidia reference drivers weren't working well with their cards. But their drivers are too old to be used for serious gaming.
This is really strange, as the GF4 card I use is an MSI one (G4Ti4600-VTD) and it seems to be working without a hitch!! And I originally installed the 2960 drivers, and upgraded all the way up to the 4191's as the new driver updates became available..

Unless there's a design error with them some where??!! ..
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Old 12-25-02, 02:57 AM   #71
CheeseCoiw
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfman [TWP]
This is really strange, as the GF4 card I use is an MSI one (G4Ti4600-VTD) and it seems to be working without a hitch!! And I originally installed the 2960 drivers, and upgraded all the way up to the 4191's as the new driver updates became available..

Unless there's a design error with them some where??!! ..
I agree. What would make sense were if they wanted us to only use the nvidida drivers they had tested, and thus only the ones they could support, but I got a feeling that it might not work, but he wouldn't tell them why. I asked him to tell the nvidia people what MSI are doing, so that nvidia could incorporate it, but he never replied.

My best guess is that it have something to do with the combination of MoBo & card.
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Old 12-25-02, 05:51 PM   #72
dquepal
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrianzaMan
Hi,

I have a problem like this to:

Creative (Made by MSI) Geforce 3 Ti200

MSI KT4 Ultra

Athlon 2400+

X takes 2-3 minutes to start with drivers 4191!!

How can I reduce this time??

I can only use 3xxx drivers that haven't this problem

Bye

Marcello

I having the 2-3 minutes issue too. My specs:
MSI-6590 KT400 Ultra
Athlon XP 1800+
256 pc2700
HD IBM 7200rpm 40GB
CD-R TDK 16/10/40
Geforce 3 ti200 MSI
Logitech, optical mouse
Samsung SyncMaster 753s
ROUTER Linksys BEFSR41
Mandrake Linux 9.0
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